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Reworking/Removing T menu

Keep the T menu?  

27 members have voted

  1. 1. Remove or rework the T menu?



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"Please, if you do want to take the time to just put your thoughts into a couple sentences and toss a thread up in the Jailbreak section, we'd appreciate it."

Alright, here it is.

 

I am completely down for removing T menu, as it is way to OP as it's currently set up. Heavy T sided meta, when I last played here is a small statistic that I randomly chose to use to remove most forms of bias, but this is not completely accurate when it comes to terms of how many rounds Ts win rounds. 

I recently played last night, and I remember the score being specifically 3/19 with 5 CTs, and about 11 Ts. Relatively OK ratio, this makes the win rate of the Ts about 87.5%.

This is pretty fucking ridiculous, considering we did not only have decent players on the CT side, Nolan, Gween, Strayyz, and 2 others, while the rest of the T side was relatively lower and or the same in skill.

 

Considering electric razor is an extremely played map, you can literally start out with 3 pistols without rebelling, and really all it takes is 1 or 2 CT kills in short succession to turn the tide in taking control. I think this was a relatively ok idea in theory, and something needed to be changed in jailbreak to gain some players, but this is really just ridiculous.

 

In the thread I will include a Poll whether or not you think this is a change you want to see staying on the server or not, and hopefully the managers will take a look and reconsider keeping this in the server.

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When I was first talking about this idea with ZZL and scrolls, having guns be buyable was completely off the table. Idk how they got roped in. That's completely unbalanced. I think remove the pistols. The tazer is fine. Maybe make it once every other round. 

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Zero two in another thread that majority of the player base liked it but I think that's just cause it makes the game so easy for the Ts to win which isn't necessarily the point of JB. I think at the bare minimum guns need to be removed.

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Posted (edited)

I mean just to give input because I've been recently playing JB and poping it. The T Menu is really only unbalanced when there are not many people on. The T menu is really completely balanced when there is a med-large pop size on and it really just makes playing T more enjoyable because the CTs need to watch out a bit more.

 

Overall the few hours I've played the last few days the T menu has been fun to have and 1 extra gun when you have 5 CTs and many Ts doesn't really do too much other than open more opportunities if the CTs make mistakes.

 

There is a problem with it though and that's the scaling. It has none. I think to get the best of both worlds it definitely needs to have a scaling aspect. Like when there are less than 3 CTs you can't buy a gun or when there are like 6 CTs you can buy 2 guns and more tasers, etc. Some sort of scaling mechanic, even if its just the menu is partially disabled until there is enough players on, I believe will greatly improve the idea.

 

Completely removing the T menu though I think is not the way to go because when it works well with a decent population it makes for some enjoyable moments as T.

Edited by Acer
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Posted (edited)

On the suggestion thread I didn’t know what the reworked T menu had in it after poke said it was busted, so once i asked him about it while I joined the server I was stunned.
 

Giving a random player a pistol at the start of the round is insane. There are already free guns that prisoners get at the start of the map, and there are even better guns hidden around that you have to go through kos areas to even have a chance of getting. Allowing a prisoner free gun gives like 3 people with pistols to unload on unlucky CTs literally right when the round starts is stupid. Not only will the CTs have to worry about what I just said, they will most likely be preoccupied with giving orders, keeping track of the prisoners, or trying to catch the other prisoners who used the secrets in those cells. When I played with this menu being in affect as a CT, almost every single round collapsed as soon as the cell doors opened and it led to a very unfun experience playing JB where the map finished with the guards winning barely a fraction of the rounds.

 

This is not even mentioning the fact that literally nobody wants to play CT to the point where IIRC there was a discussion on trying to incentivize playing on CT because there was like a 3 to 20 disparity between the teams, and it feels like that this is a giant step in the wrong direction when it comes to that. JB is the only server I like and it sucks to say that it literally feels unplayable playing as my preferred role.

Edited by Strayyz

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16 minutes ago, Phoenix_ said:

When I was first talking about this idea with ZZL and scrolls, having guns be buyable was completely off the table. Idk how they got roped in. That's completely unbalanced. I think remove the pistols. The tazer is fine. Maybe make it once every other round. 

The plan zzl had told me was to change the jihad buy to be a T menu, not having them be seperate (jihad would take all credits, so you could either buy other items or a jihad). Guns were never going to be items, as we were afraid this exact thing would happen.

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Posted (edited)

I would like to inform those who do not know the t menu only adds 1 extra weapon of choice to the round not 3. once one t buys a usp the glock and the taser are disabled and i would also like to point out that each gun only gets one mag when its bought from the t menu.

Edited by Zero Two
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4 minutes ago, Strayyz said:

On the suggestion thread I didn’t know what the reworked T menu had in it after poke said it was busted, so once i asked him about it while I joined the server I was stunned.
 

Allowing 2 players to buy a pistol at the start of the round is insane. There are already free guns that prisoners get at the start of the map, and there are even better guns hidden around that you have to go through kos areas to even have a chance of getting. Allowing 2 more prisoners guns gives like 4 people with pistols to unload on one CT who is most likely preoccupied with giving orders, keeping track of the prisoners, or trying to catch the other prisoners who used the secrets in those cells. When I played with this as a CT, almost every single round collapsed as soon as the cell doors opened and it led to a very unfun experience playing JB.

 

This is not even mentioning the fact that literally nobody wants to play CT to the point where I remember there being a discussion on trying to incentivize playing on CT because there was like a 3 to 20 between the teams, and it feels like that this is a giant step in the wrong direction when it comes to that. JB is the only server I like and it sucks to say that it literally feels unplayable playing as my preferred role.

strayyz take

giphy.gif

 

people not wanting to play CT has been an issue for years, adding a T menu is not the way to go

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Okay.. let's break this down.

 

I got promoted the day this got added, so despite not having a hand in its addition, I don't think this is as bad as people are making it out to be. Granted, I think the reason it's not as bad is because it wasn't given a very proper introduction and I myself didn't even know the command to use when I got on to use it. But I found it out, and I spent a couple hours two days ago just buying a Glock over and over and gunning CTs down as they came out of armory - very broken, yes.

 

I later found out that only one weapon; either a Glock, USP, or Zeus can be bought per round - good. However, an extra gun in play every round is game breaking, especially a fully loaded one. I talked to Zero Two and we moved it down to one magazine for any gun bought. However, a talented T side player (like myself) can still do a ridiculous amount of damage with one clip of bullets every single round. And that's how it's currently working - there is a gun in play every single round with a full clip. I don't think this is right. My suggestion was to make a credit earning system, something along the lines of +100 for a kill, +50 for an assist, and buying something like a Glock would be like 750 credits.

 

For the time being, I do think it's best we retire the weapons on the menu entirely. I agree with the points being made, I've already made them. Yes, T side has historically had a huge advantage on our server, and yes it's discouraging for people to play CT side with this menu added when it's already hard to get CTs to play. Do I think the menu is bad? No, the idea of the menu is fantastic in writing, but I think it needs some heavy restructuring. I'll be honest, I wouldn't have imagined a weapon in a prisoner buy menu at all when I thought of it, but I can see it being alright with proper balances.

 

My ideal prisoner menu would look more like: a flashbang, a health refill (+50), and some other things that wouldn't cut too much into roleplay but still introduce a fresh new aspect to the game. And I think this is still a route we can take this and have it be a healthy addition to the server. However, for game changing additions such as this one, I've always preferred looking to the community prior to moving forward with it. A plugin has to be made, tested, altered, so on and so forth, and if the community doesn't like it then well, that's a lot of time wasted. Despite us having already done this, the community; you guys, are the ones playing the server, and I think we should be listening to you.

 

Do you really refute the idea of a prisoner buy menu altogether? Or are the guns just too game breaking at the moment? Do you refute the idea of guns entirely or are they just too easy to get currently? I'm fine with this thread being treated as the feedback thread for the plugin - continue on with discussion. If it's deemed that most people dislike the idea of prisoners having any sort of new advantage like this, we're not gonna force it down your throats. We apologize for this inconvenience - the menu itself will be disabled entirely until further notice.

 

Thanks.

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2 minutes ago, Dominic said:

Do you really refute the idea of a prisoner buy menu altogether? Or are the guns just too game breaking at the moment? Do you refute the idea of guns entirely or are they just too easy to get currently? I'm fine with this thread being treated as the feedback thread for the plugin - continue on with discussion. If it's deemed that most people dislike the idea of prisoners having any sort of new advantage like this, we're not gonna force it down your throats. We apologize for this inconvenience - the menu itself will be disabled entirely until further notice.

 

Thanks.

when me and zzl were SMs we had an idea for a t menu that never got released but the one thing everyone agreed on was no guns. it was mainly for the jihad but had other items similar to your example, although i believe nades were a bit controversial. don’t remember the items we discussed, i think some were custom, but im sure you can find the rough drafts for it in one of the JB chats. 

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Quick thoughts

 

Call it black market because it's cooler and fits in rp

 

Have items available and limits scaled by CTs alive on round start

 

Add !stripsearch or !search to target one prisoner by name and delete weapons once a round - gives a good buff to CTs but also adds elements in that would allow a stacked T to surrender or wager for a pardon etc.

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