Dominic

A move towards Discord

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Hello everyone,

 

The Board had a discussion about our current situation in regards to running TeamSpeak and Discord simultaneously. Over a year ago, we attempted to make a full switch over to Discord. Unfortunately, there was a lot of backlash from the community because of this decision. Last time, we didn't approach the community about the change prior to attempting to move forward, but now we are.

 

Forcing everyone over to Discord for voice communication would also increase chat activity and general use of our Discord. We're quite behind other communities in terms of how established we are on Discord, especially in regards to how many people are in our Discord and how many people actually utilize it. Potential sponsors will most likely end up joining our Discord rather than our TeamSpeak, and we'd want them to see a thriving one as opposed to a stale one. Additionally, it seems quite evident that a majority of people on our servers would prefer to join Discord over TeamSpeak. Since this seems to be the case, you'll probably be looking at a lot more people using our voice chats and easier integration of players into the community. The main argument that comes up is that we already have so many people used to using TeamSpeak, but that will continue to happen if we leave it open.

 

We'd probably be looking to do a trial run for a short period of time to test the waters as opposed to an immediate full move, but the end goal is to move over to Discord completely. This thread is open for discussion on that matter. Realize this isn't a final decision as of yet, which is why we're coming to you guys about it. Let's all keep our heads on straight and not freak out, we're willing to hear what you all have to say.

 

Thanks.

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I know it's April 1st and shit but this isn't a joke. A discussion thread would not have been my elaborate idea for a prank. Don't shit post because we're gonna moderate this. The bad timing of the thread is because some dude on steroids who plays with airplanes all day wants to fuck with me.

 

Thank you.

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I always advocated for a switch over to Discord because of the many benefits it has as a community builder with its ever-growing popularity and user-friendly interface being so simple that even @ThRza 's grandma could use it. While there may be concerns about voice quality, as long as people are willing to nitro boost the server, we can access a higher quality of voice than what TeamSpeak offers. I think a trial run would be the best course of action since essentially stress testing Discord to compare its compatibility with both our current regulars and the prospect of attracting new players would provide really valuable data to see if the time is really right to make the switch.

 

I've always been a big proponent of wanting to see this switch happen since I think it will allow this community to grow beyond CS:GO and start a new era and hopefully surge and thrive. But if you guys run this trial run and it doesn't go to plan, it's definitely worth figuring out how to be prepared for a full switch and coming back however many weeks/months later.

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I'm extremely passionate towards Teamspeak and I agree that a move to Discord would help us expand but I don't think getting rid of TS for Discord would be healthy. Some people like Teamspeak more than they like Discord and if we were to get rid of TS, those people will probably never end up using the Discord. You could say that the reason why no one uses the SG Discord to talk is because we have a Teamspeak but I think it's because there is a clear preference for Teamspeak. A lot of the people in our Teamspeak sit in a private channel with their friends. They talk with who they want to talk. There is nothing stopping people from quitting Teamspeak and hopping into our Discord voice channels. They simply prefer Teamspeak. Some people will end up using the Discord and others will split off and make their own with their friends thus killing the community in a sense. It's already happening now but the problem will get worse. It isn't preventable in either scenario and we aren't going to force anybody to use any of our platforms I know that the last time that this was introduced it was kind of forced on everybody and maybe that is what caused the distaste towards Discord but what changed in a year? I agree that a move to Discord would definitely help us expand our community but I do not think it would work as well as we would hope.

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So here's my thoughts on discord looking at it from seeing other communities discords and our own. Discord does not foster the same voice culture that Teamspeak does. The servers may be the most important aspect of this community when it comes to introducing members to us but when it comes to fostering relationships teamspeak has provided that essential environment for many years at this point. The trial may go well and it may go well for a few months afterwards but eventually just as all other community servers I've seen on discord you'll have dead voice channels and incoherent chat channels.

 

I hope this goes well for the communities sake but I could really see this decision backfiring 6 months from the go live with a dead discord and people scratching their heads trying to figure out how this once close knit community is unraveling.

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I don't get why the goal is to strip away the platform that clearly has the preference over the other. I get teamspeak is more foreign to some but there are features to it the community clearly prefers. It's not that hard coming into the community and learning how to use teamspeak. Forcing the transition also risks killing a big part of the community. Instead of forcing it down the community's throat, why not just try to utilize Discord in community/server events and such to see how people feel about Discord and decide where to move from there?

Edited by Kieran

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It's fair for you guys to express concerns over a potential switch, but an expression I keep hearing is "forcing down x's throat".

 

I was heavily, and I mean heavily against a discord switch last year. To this day, I still believe TS is the superior voip program, that its functionality and the place it has in our community strongly pertains to its very success. However, I've come to the conclusion that the switch is an inevitability. The same thing could've been said (and probably were) about mumble and ventrilo. The reach Discord has over TS is not even a competition and Discord's versatility is unparalleled in the industry.

 

What I ask of you, before criticism rises out of emotional discourse and fears of SG shutting down, is to see this as an expansion, as a transition, rather than a brute-forced change. We will not implement discord like we tried to last year, this will be a process. We don't have ETAs, nor will any of you wake up with the TS server down for good. We listen closely to the community's feedback, because as many have mentioned, the niche spot we found with Teamspeak is a non-negligible factor in this discussion, and that brutally switching from a platform to another would hurt more than benefit us. We are open to ideas, suggestions, any feedback, or concerns that you guys might have, but it is important to state facts over emotional nostalgia. This will be a big move, I know that, but I want this to be done as a community effort, and not perceived as the board forcing a change that nobody wants down their throats.

 

Like we said, we did not state a specific date nor do we plan on doing this very soon, but you can gradually expect improvements over our discord and how we deal with many of the sub/vip perks and functions to retain 100% of what we've built so far. I hope this is somewhat comforting for some, because I completely understand how some of you guys might feel, being a part of the wave last time. If you have anything to say, contact us, whether it be here or elsewhere, we will listen.

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I know many people prefer teamspeak over discord and for good reason. To compare the two in terms of their voice servers is not a proper comparison imo because TS is focused on its VOIP while discord is mainly text chatting.

 

The best comparison i can give to discord is that it's a better version of Slack. Other than that, currently discord does not offer the same interactive experience that teamspeak does. I feel moving away from the interactive environment of teamspeak will drive the community into sub-groups and provide less interaction between new and old members of the community.

 

My opinion of this is based off of what teamspeak does that discord can not, which is allow members to interact in a private manor, available to only people inside of their text/voice channel, while discord would require and open text channel paired with its voice channel that anyone could join into. There may be a way to do this in discord, but it would still cause more confusion as to which channel someone is messaging in compared to teamspeak's text channels linked to their voice channels.

 

For the reasons stated above (which may not be worded properly and be confusing) I believe we should keep teamspeak until a platform comes along that can properly mimic its usage and functionality.

 

TLDR: Teamspeak and discord are similar in some aspects but not a lot, mainly voice channels being superior on teamspeak.

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What I ask of you, before criticism rises out of emotional discourse and fears of SG shutting down, is to see this as an expansion, as a transition, rather than a brute-forced change. We will not implement discord like we tried to last year, this will be a process. We don't have ETAs, nor will any of you wake up with the TS server down for good. We listen closely to the community's feedback, because as many have mentioned, the niche spot we found with Teamspeak is a non-negligible factor in this discussion, and that brutally switching from a platform to another would hurt more than benefit us. We are open to ideas, suggestions, any feedback, or concerns that you guys might have, but it is important to state facts over emotional nostalgia. This will be a big move, I know that, but I want this to be done as a community effort, and not perceived as the board forcing a change that nobody wants down their throats.

 

Like we said, we did not state a specific date nor do we plan on doing this very soon, but you can gradually expect improvements over our discord and how we deal with many of the sub/vip perks and functions to retain 100% of what we've built so far. I hope this is somewhat comforting for some, because I completely understand how some of you guys might feel, being a part of the wave last time. If you have anything to say, contact us, whether it be here or elsewhere, we will listen.

 

I guess a suggestion I would have to try and see how ready certain aspects of our Discord and Discord as a whole for a switchover would be to "stress test" certain things at small increments that would become the eventual norm on the Discord. On the public side of things, Jackbox events/sessions and movie nights are primed to be a testing ground for our Discord. On the staff side, perhaps holding certain team meetings in Discord can allow you guys to test the limits of the voice quality and see how many nitro boosters we would need to have comparable voice quality to TeamSpeak.

 

On top of this, we (as a community/active forum goers) could hop on the Discord from time to time and show activity in both the voice channels and text channels, perhaps with some sort of incentive to get the less motivated members into it. Discord is very much "monkey see monkey do" when it comes to joining voice channels and joining into discussions. Hopefully by getting some staff and regulars talking in voice and text will make less active members and new people want to join in.

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I really don't understand why it has to be one or the other... discord is free and teamspeak's licensing fees are more than covered by donations. Say what you want about not 'forcing it down peoples throats' but the reality is if people prefer the program and access gets removed in the future you are effectively forcing them to use discord to participate in a similar environment. You can say that y'all are 'listening closely to the communities feedback' but where are the results? Most of the established members here clearly prefer teamspeak over discord for voice whether due to reasons listed here or better quality through codecs that discord does not offer. I'm trying to keep this as neutral as possible because I don't want to come off as an asshole but saying shit like we're just acting out of nostalgia is ridiculous and very clearly not a 'factual' argument like that of which you would like us to provide.

 

I get that 'Discord is the future' or whatever but from personal experience (sneks community, communities for other games, ect) discord does not maintain a consistent voice presence whatsoever.

 

Basically my question is why keep bringing this issue up when there is clearly pushback every time for legit reasons? Both platforms cant coexist?

 

 

 

P.S Roux that post comes off as extremely patronizing.

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I'm saying it's being forced down our throats because it IS being forced. Taking it away and giving us one option is forcing. I mean, even the original post described it as forcing..

 

This isn't "emotional nostalgia", it's preferring a superior service over another weaker service. I don't care that discord is the future and is more "versatile". TeamSpeak is a superior service for voice chat and we all know that. There is a preference for it for a reason. Voice chatting is a huge part of the social aspect of the community, and forcing us to use a weaker product and possibly drive some regulars away from using it isn't in our interests at all. Find other ways to make discord more lively and utilized so it doesn't appear dead. Taking away teamspeak is not acting in our interests as the preference for it is as clear as day. If/when discord improves their voice chat functions/features and becomes better than teamspeak then I would say change it.

 

Suggestion: Find ways to encourage using discord to get rewards of some sort in game

Edited by Kieran

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I'm saying it's being forced down our throats because it IS being forced. Taking it away and giving us one option is forcing. I mean, even the original post described it as forcing..

 

This isn't "emotional nostalgia", it's preferring a superior service over another weaker service. I don't care that discord is the future and is more "versatile". TeamSpeak is a superior service for voice chat and we all know that. There is a preference for it for a reason. Voice chatting is a huge part of the social aspect of the community, and forcing us to use a weaker product and possibly drive some regulars away from using it isn't in our interests at all. Find other ways to make discord more lively and utilized so it doesn't appear dead. Taking away teamspeak is not acting in our interests as the preference for it is as clear as day. If/when discord improves their voice chat functions/features and becomes better than teamspeak then I would say change it.

 

The argument of 'weaker service' is really not accurate and I wish people would stop saying it. Outside of the ability to create private channels (which we could set up in discord) and the same channel text area, they are virtually the same. The voice quality is not noticeable and anyone who insists that is a thing is simply biased against discord, as its just not accurate anymore. Discord and Teamspeak both use Opus for their codec and with level one nitro you get 128 Kbps audio quality which is higher than the standard cap of ~100 Kbps from TS. I use and am part of many active discords and have seen them successfully function as both a place for information (text channels) and for voice of up to 50+ people. The only truly valid argument I've seen for teamspeak vs discord is the way someone can use text to talk in a channel with people using mics, something that would be much harder to achieve on discord. The argument of private channels is incredibly flawed in reasoning, as that does nothing to help welcome new people or promote a community feeling. Private channels are alienating and often used to avoid certain people or even entire groups of people and overall promotes generally immature behavior.

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The argument of 'weaker service' is really not accurate and I wish people would stop saying it. Outside of the ability to create private channels (which we could set up in discord) and the same channel text area, they are virtually the same. The voice quality is not noticeable and anyone who insists that is a thing is simply biased against discord, as its just not accurate anymore. Discord and Teamspeak both use Opus for their codec and with level one nitro you get 128 Kbps audio quality which is higher than the standard cap of ~100 Kbps from TS. I use and am part of many active discords and have seen them successfully function as both a place for information (text channels) and for voice of up to 50+ people. The only truly valid argument I've seen for teamspeak vs discord is the way someone can use text to talk in a channel with people using mics, something that would be much harder to achieve on discord. The argument of private channels is incredibly flawed in reasoning, as that does nothing to help welcome new people or promote a community feeling. Private channels are alienating and often used to avoid certain people or even entire groups of people and overall promotes generally immature behavior.

 

There are features that are still preferred by the regular base as stated. You can promote liveliness in the discord in other ways, not taking away our preference. Everyone is familiar with discord and we're not using it for those reasons, not this "emotional nostalgia".

 

Maybe it's not "superior" in mic quality or whatever, but it's just more liked. Maybe superior wasn't the right word, but I still don't agree with taking it away.

Edited by Kieran

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There are features that are still preferred by the regular base as stated. You can promote liveliness in the discord in other ways, not taking away our preference. Everyone is familiar with discord and we're not using it for those reasons, not this "emotional nostalgia".

 

Maybe it's not "superior" in mic quality or whatever, but it's just more liked. Maybe superior wasn't the right word.

I think that's the key here.

 

We currently have both options available. If discord was superior we would have migrated by now. Like I said in the conversation roux and I had on teamspeak an hour or so ago I'm not really invested in this decision personally at this point as my activity has been close to zero, but, I would like to lobby against something I see as a mistake.

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The only truly valid argument I've seen for teamspeak vs discord is the way someone can use text to talk in a channel with people using mics, something that would be much harder to achieve on discord.

 

there is a /tts that is built into discord on desktop which admins have access to but I believe it can be given to lower ranks/roles as well.

 

My biggest "concern" with completely switching from teamspeak to discord is that people will just make their own private servers instead of using the main one whether it's to VC or casually chat. This was sort of brought up in the meeting and I think Dominic said he hopes people wouldn't make private servers to sabotage the main one. There are many private servers owned by SG members and I don't think any of them were created with the intention of sabotaging the main one. If it was more convenient to create private servers rather than private channels in teamspeak I'm sure it would happen too. Realistically, I would say its more appealing to create your own server and invite your friends than to make one of the proposed private channels in the main discord for a few reasons.

 

I don't think anyone has an issue with trying to improve the discord server and making it a more active place for the community but getting rid of teamspeak right off the bat doesnt seem like the right thing to do, especially with how preferred it is by a lot of the community.

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What are the benefits of discord voice chat over teamspeak for established members of the community? Why should I, as a regular user, want to use Discord voice chat?

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What are the benefits of discord voice chat over teamspeak for established members of the community? Why should I, as a regular user, want to use Discord voice chat?

 

From what I understand this move is not aimed to benefit established members of the community who enjoy Teamspeak, but moreso to benefit existing players on the server who want an easy way to join our community

Edited by fantastic

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From what I understand this move is not to benefit established members of the community who enjoy Teamspeak, but moreso for existing players on the server who want an easy way to join our community

 

 

 

I do get the growth angle. Its ease of inviting, retaining and reaching out to NEW players is a potentially great benefit. There is a significant portion of our playerbase who can not be bothered / do not want to make a forum account and this is a great opportunity to involve them in the community.

 

 

 

 

I just wonder why get rid of TS just to piss off established regulars who are unlikely to use the main discord? That's kind of why I want the idea of discord properly sold to us as community members and voice chat users.

Edited by SilentGuns

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A large majority of our playerbase on the servers have no interest in using Teamspeak because it "old and lame" and isn't in line with the Discord culture they're used to. While we do get new regulars into using Teamspeak, it is a rather small portion and is generally people who are already invested in the community by regularly playing the servers or frequenting our forums. As time goes on, unless Teamspeak becomes popular again, it's only going to get harder to gather and retain new players in the Teamspeak. This is why we went about creating a Discord in the first place.

 

Unfortunately, our Discord is a ghost town because the majority of our Staff and some regs use the Teamspeak. Despite claims that we can have both, nobody is using our Discord VCs or even our text channels because of our already established population on TS. We need people to populate our Discord for new regulars to actually want to stay and talk.

 

I personally hate Discord. I don't agree with the perspectives of the company that owns it, I don't like the culture it fosters, I find it's functionality to be counter-intuitive at times, and despite it's claims of "superior or equal" vc quality, it shits the bed from time to time without any way of troubleshooting it. I still think this change is inevitable, and it's better for us to get ahead of it, rather than letting TS slowly die off as oldfags leave, and scrambling to get population on a Discord that is empty. Anyone who thinks that we can have both SHOULD be the ones populating the Discord. We need people populating the Discord to foster a population of regs. Pulling the plug last year may have been a bit premature, but it's likely the only way we will actually get people to use the Discord.

 

The amount of growth we are blowing off because we prefer one platform over another that already has very similar functionality is kind of sad.

 

Discord does not foster the same voice culture that Teamspeak does. The servers may be the most important aspect of this community when it comes to introducing members to us but when it comes to fostering relationships teamspeak has provided that essential environment for many years at this point.

 

This is something I sympathize with the most. I don't think it's arguable that you're going to get the same VC culture and tight knit relationships that TS has fostered over the years. Nonetheless, I still feel this change is inevitable, and it is in our best interest to expand and connect the community by switching entirely to Discord.

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I do agree that discord would help with expansion for newer players, but I would like to see the higher ups attempting other ways of improving activity of the discord before taking away teamspeak. It would be better if they could coexist.

Edited by Kieran

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With all the talk of how discord is preferred by players outside our community and whatnot... Why is our discord voice channels dead for the most part. Where are all of these people who prefer discord? Shouldn't they be socializing in our discords voice chat channels with all of the other new players who prefer discord? What improvements to the discord are we making that would make new players want to use it outside of forcing our existing users off of teamspeak to (hopefully) maintain a presence on the platform to hopefully have all of these new guys start using our discord?

 

If these people are already not using the application to connect via voice now what makes you think they will be inclined to in the future?

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With all the talk of how discord is preferred by players outside our community and whatnot... Why is our discord voice channels dead for the most part. Where are all of these people who prefer discord? Shouldn't they be socializing in our discords voice chat channels with all of the other new players who prefer discord? What improvements to the discord are we making that would make new players want to use it outside of forcing our existing users off of teamspeak to (hopefully) maintain a presence on the platform to hopefully have all of these new guys start using our discord?

 

If these people are already not using the application to connect via voice now what makes you think they will be inclined to in the future?

 

They're not "already using the application", they're not using our server. With Discord making it so easy to create servers, many of them have said that they have their own servers. I'm not sure how much effort has been put into polling or asking players which platforms they use and prefer (likely not enough), but , regardless, the common assumption is that Discord is a more popular platform for younger people, that many are already using. While it was likely sarcastic, you've answered your own question already: people aren't using our Discord because it appears dead, and shutting off one platform, or encouraging players to migrate, will make the Discord more lively, increasing our chances of having players that stick around.

 

The Discord has already been reorganized to be more useable, and a lot more thought has been put into moderation and implementation. I don't know what else is in the pipeline to be shipped, but I would agree with Kieran that changes should be made for Discord to be more useable/enticing before we make a full migration.

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It was partly sarcasm. The point I'm trying to make is to make the discord work you're going to have to force users off of teamspeak at some point, which, is contrary to the rhetoric being presented. Making improvements is all well and good but saying you're not forcing it down people's throats while insinuating that sometime in the near future teamspeak will be abandoned by the community is just paying lip service to those who oppose getting rid of teamspeak. I understand the reasoning behind the move and can accept that no amount of protest will save ts at some point, but, it still feels forced.

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So recently I have came across a couple other smaller communities that use only discord, and this is how I see it. It is versatile, you can have pretty much everything automated, and it is customizable out the ass. One of the downsides of that is that it can look like shit unless you have it done right. But my point is that getting new players involved in the community, forums, and all around knowledgeable of us is really easy with discord. It is great for new players that don't like teamspeak.

 

Now on another note, discord wasn't born for simpleness. Everything that is done from a admin point of view (admin of discord not sg), has to be done right or shit won't function. On top of that is forces this shyness on people, I'm sure that our regs would be fine getting into a call and talking all day, but discord doesn't foster the same forcefulness of making people get in a channel and just talk. Most people just text chat and post memes all day, which you can even see in our current discord.

 

If discord is the equivalent to teamspeak just newer then why is no one in it hanging out right now. Obviously our regs prefer ts, but the SG discord has over 1000 members, most of them not regs, most of them use discord 24/7. I understand wanting to open the community to new people and this "other side of the world", but eliminating why people love SG, this communication and these tight relationships we have within our staff and regs, everyone that actually takes the step and hops in a ts channel is why everyone is vouching for teamspeak. Cool people may not like discord or how it works, they may be comfortable with ts, but if it was really down to that people would just get over it and make the switch.

 

If you really want to improve discord, just start making it the place we do all our shit, run evens in discord, have meetings, do small things like discord raffles, have a ranking system for the top activity players, get a custom bot built with some fun cool commands. There are so many ways that you can expand discord and make it bring new players as a communication platform, no one is arguing against that, but why would you get rid of teamspeak in order to make this move. Your the ones that need to build up the discord, don't try to make the community do it for you.

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I'm gonna add my 2 cents here. The only advantage I can possibly think of switching to discord is the text channels and that's it. The text channels in discord are extremely nice. They provide many options, you don't have to be in a certain voice channel to talk about things (unlike teamspeak) and you can upload images or videos quick and easy. No complaints.

 

But, I think forcing a switch (now, I don't know what path you guys want to take it but forcing it would be a bad idea) would be horrible. Now, you guys restricted us on the server. I'm not one for saying that racism is funny and the only thing that is funny, because it isn't, but you quickly realize that many of the jokes and the way people socialize here involve some sort of racism. Whether it just be a picture of a funny thing and the caption is the n word, it is brought up quite a lot. We can't even say it in the voice channels. To be honest, I'm not quite sure how you will guys even enforce this, because, in private channels (mine or other peoples) I can sure as hell tell that no-no words will be said.

 

Another point is that no private channels. Now, I never like to go in to private channels because I am open to talking to new people. In the end, I am a friendly guy looking to just have fun but me (and other people alike) have problems with certain people here and would rather not speak to them. I really don't, with anybody, but many people here do and would much rather be in a private channel so they could avoid that person. Also, wouldn't trolling be upped a lot? What's stopping me from joining channels and purposely saying dumb things with no CAs in the channel and everybody in there has to listen? Also whats stopping those people from leaving and going to their own discord?

 

Now, I think if we were to make this switch, this will be what will make you guys realize it was a bad idea. People will just leave your discord and go to their own if they encounter problems. I mean, like I said, I have no problem talking to new people, but I can just easily go to my own discord with all of my friends if I'm having problems from other people or because I can't say a simple joke or send a meme. No private channels, restrictions on certain language, I would much rather go into my discord where I can say and do whatever the fuck I want and have a better time there. The SG discord would probably become dead because everybody will leave. Right now, the community has the option between discord and teamspeak, and most of the community is at teamspeak for a reason.

Edited by duffy

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