ImSkidoodleIRL

The server needs some serious treatment

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throughout my roughly 250 hours on the server, I have never felt the need to address any issues, (because I had never really experienced any), until recently. Over the past month, I decided to hop back onto the server to have a little bit of fun and goof around. But, every once and a while, between the fun experiences, are experiences that can only be described as harassful,ignorant, arrogant tangents by players who are never punished, or who aren't punished enough. Now, I'm not going to name any names, because I don't want anybody to get angry over this, I just want them to see how I feel. Maybe it's just me, but I'm beginning to lose hope in the system of punishment established on the server. As a result of this, my enjoyment on the server has reduced dramatically, to the point where even trying to enjoy the experience a little, has become both physically, and mentally, exhausting. Maybe this is me just ranting, or maybe I'm not the only one who feels this way. Honestly, I don't care. The point that I'm trying to make is that my enjoyment of the server is quickly fading away. Maybe you'll see me back on the server tomorrow, maybe you won't. Honestly, I have no idea. All I can say for certain is that I hope something can quickly change.

 

P.S. This is Prayer ( I couldn't figure out how to change my name)

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I haven't been active on TTT because the JB server seems to need a lot of help at this moment but I can relate the two server's current situations. Both sides need frequent admin regulation and punishments need to be dealt out to help save the server's situation. I'm sure at least some, if not most admins are trying to keep the server the best it can be. I would encourage active and good TTT regs to come forward and apply for admin to help with the current situation of TTT that I'm hearing about.

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What I've noticed over the past two or three months are admins that don't do their job. I understand that admins are player's like everybody else, but you made an application and were accepted for a reason. If you don't do your job, then why are you holding the title? I understand your frustration completely, and something should be changed. Oh, and for the AT's/BD's, you might want to start watching your admins, they tend to favor their friend's over the rules. 

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, splayd said:

I would encourage active and good TTT regs to come forward and apply for admin to help with the current situation of TTT that I'm hearing about.

Adding more admins isn't going to be much of a solution when the system of administration itself is the root of the issue (at least in my opinion).

Edited by Kieran

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46 minutes ago, Sully said:

What I've noticed over the past two or three months are admins that don't do their job. I understand that admins are player's like everybody else, but you made an application and were accepted for a reason. If you don't do your job, then why are you holding the title? I understand your frustration completely, and something should be changed. Oh, and for the AT's/BD's, you might want to start watching your admins, they tend to favor their friend's over the rules. 

I agree with you 100% Admins honestly don't do what they were put on for. I love all the admins on but, there are times where there is blantant RDM/Racism, and the most that is done is, an annoucement saying, "If you're new, read the rules." Instead of a slay and warning, or something along the line.

I understand that they are players, but you're top of the top players, people who keep the server in check. Even if a commoner like me rdms by accident or something like that; slay them like you'd slay anyone else. But sometimes it's honestly annoying to play with rdmer's and know that, you need to wait for an admin to come. :/

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as @Kieranstated above adding admins to the team won't solve anything in the case for TTT since if you really want to get some kind of administrative action done you have to be in spectate or see the player with your own eyes and who wants to be in spectate 24/7 admins are players too(and we are not allowed to be detectives since that can lead to false punishments). It is very unlike zombie escape since you can see most of what is going on with your personal view. I think the only way that we can reduce/ deterrent  the amount of REPEAT offenders on the server would be having a warn/note function with logging  so if a player is a repeat offender we could give out harsher punishments(I have no idea if this would be too much of a resource hog). This may be a bit of a outsider view from someone who has maybe a day of playtime on the server since its birth.

 

Ex. /logs {name}

-------Logs {name} --------

 8/29 kicked by {admin} (reason)

 8/29 slayed by {admin}
 8/29 slayed by {admin}

 8/29 slayed by {admin}

 8/28 kicked by {admin} (reason)

 8/27 warned by {admin} (reason)

 8/26 {admin} note (reason)

 8/26 muted by {admin}

----------Pages 1/4 ----------

 

So if I came on and this player is still rdming I could go straight to a kick instead of a slay since he has been slayed 3 times today and kicked.
 

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31 minutes ago, lynxie said:

I agree with you 100% Admins honestly don't do what they were put on for. I love all the admins on but, there are times where there is blantant RDM/Racism, and the most that is done is, an annoucement saying, "If you're new, read the rules." Instead of a slay and warning, or something along the line.

I understand that they are players, but you're top of the top players, people who keep the server in check. Even if a commoner like me rdms by accident or something like that; slay them like you'd slay anyone else. But sometimes it's honestly annoying to play with rdmer's and know that, you need to wait for an admin to come. :/

The reason admins say read the rules in all chat is if they didn’t see the situation, but they still want to get the message out there for the individuals who could’ve possibly broken a rule, and the rule of racism itself is admin discretion, it really depends on what admins are on and what we deem as punishable. If we see a situation of rdm, we are most likely going to take action against the said individual. We have to follow admin rules. This means it may seem like “we are not doing our jobs”, but in reality, we are communicating in admin chat to watch out for the person or whoever calls to sit in spec to watch for a rule break. To add on to this, your second point doesn’t even make much sense to me, you make a simple accident, you recognize it’s rdm, so you slay. Then you want an admin to slay you on top of that? We are being lenient with people when they recognize it was a simple mistake and admit their wrongdoings by slaying. Now to your point on waiting for admins to come. I don’t even know why you put that there, we may be admins, but we all have irl lives too. Not all of us are going to be on the server 10 hours a day no lifing, and trust me when I say this, every time a calladmin happens during the day and not really early morning and late night, you’ll have an admin claim it within minutes. I think your points are far different than sully’s, he’s trying to say that an admin is just blatantly ignoring rule breaking while you’re trying to criticize stuff that happens normally due to us abiding by the admin rules and thinking that we devote our lives to SG servers. You can always record some evidence too and make a player complaint, you don’t need an admin every time to get someone banned.

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2 hours ago, Venom™ said:

as @Kieranstated above adding admins to the team won't solve anything in the case for TTT since if you really want to get some kind of administrative action done you have to be in spectate or see the player with your own eyes and who wants to be in spectate 24/7 admins are players too(and we are not allowed to be detectives since that can lead to false punishments). It is very unlike zombie escape since you can see most of what is going on with your personal view. I think the only way that we can reduce/ deterrent  the amount of REPEAT offenders on the server would be having a warn/note function with logging  so if a player is a repeat offender we could give out harsher punishments(I have no idea if this would be too much of a resource hog). This may be a bit of a outsider view from someone who has maybe a day of playtime on the server since its birth.

 

Ex. /logs {name}

-------Logs {name} --------

 8/29 kicked by {admin} (reason)

 8/29 slayed by {admin}
 8/29 slayed by {admin}

 8/29 slayed by {admin}

 8/28 kicked by {admin} (reason)

 8/27 warned by {admin} (reason)

 8/26 {admin} note (reason)

 8/26 muted by {admin}

----------Pages 1/4 ----------

 

So if I came on and this player is still rdming I could go straight to a kick instead of a slay since he has been slayed 3 times today and kicked.
 

This'd be great if possible.

Back in my admin days I used to main on BuildRP and JB and having had something like this would've been amazing, especially on JB to pick out smart repeat offenders who just do it again when the admin that punished them leaves.

Seeing as how TTT is somewhat similar to JB I'm sure it'd work great there as well

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4 hours ago, Venom™ said:

as @Kieranstated above adding admins to the team won't solve anything in the case for TTT since if you really want to get some kind of administrative action done you have to be in spectate or see the player with your own eyes and who wants to be in spectate 24/7 admins are players too(and we are not allowed to be detectives since that can lead to false punishments). It is very unlike zombie escape since you can see most of what is going on with your personal view. I think the only way that we can reduce/ deterrent  the amount of REPEAT offenders on the server would be having a warn/note function with logging  so if a player is a repeat offender we could give out harsher punishments(I have no idea if this would be too much of a resource hog). This may be a bit of a outsider view from someone who has maybe a day of playtime on the server since its birth.

 

Ex. /logs {name}

-------Logs {name} --------

 8/29 kicked by {admin} (reason)

 8/29 slayed by {admin}
 8/29 slayed by {admin}

 8/29 slayed by {admin}

 8/28 kicked by {admin} (reason)

 8/27 warned by {admin} (reason)

 8/26 {admin} note (reason)

 8/26 muted by {admin}

----------Pages 1/4 ----------

 

So if I came on and this player is still rdming I could go straight to a kick instead of a slay since he has been slayed 3 times today and kicked.
 

 I gotta agree with venom here with this concept, this would make it SOO much easier to keep track of problematic individuals and give us the history of the person to know what rules they tend to break and for what we should be watching out for.

If this is something that could realistically be added than I would be 100% in favour of it.

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Been advocating for harsher punishments for a while now. Said multiple times that mass freekills should be taken beyond "welp, it happens". 2nd mass freekill should be a perm imo. Not to mention there are dozens of players on TTT with below 1000 karma. If you get something like below 500 karma, you should be banned. No player who's keeping the rules in mind has below 500 karma. And for new players, it doesn't take 10 RDMs to learn the rules. 

 

I think SG took a wrong turn in accepting so many inexperienced players for admin, and should've been more selective.

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All this passive aggresive bullshit, man I sure hope admins can do their jobs.

 

If it's been stated once, it's been stated a million times:   Admins can not act on what they didn't see, if they do and it turns out that you getting 'randomly' killed was justified; they're the ones who get screwed over.

 

Despite being unironically viewed as a traitor to a gaming community; I'm still among the top most active TTT admins, if not the most active. I love this server way more than I should, but even I can admit that there still seems to a shortage of admins at times. Way too many times, I am the only admin on and I don't particularly feel like sitting in spec and playing silver simulator; naturally this feels like an insult to players who were potentially wronged at the corner of bumfuck nowhere. I help when I can and I do what I am allowed to, hell at times I even feel like I have a stick shoved up my ass when @Hypnoforces me to stop half the server from breaking maps.

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1 hour ago, dafty said:

Been advocating for harsher punishments for a while now. Said multiple times that mass freekills should be taken beyond "welp, it happens". 2nd mass freekill should be a perm imo. Not to mention there are dozens of players on TTT with below 1000 karma. If you get something like below 500 karma, you should be banned. No player who's keeping the rules in mind has below 500 karma. And for new players, it doesn't take 10 RDMs to learn the rules. 

 

I think SG took a wrong turn in accepting so many inexperienced players for admin, and should've been more selective.

Before I put in my opinion on OP's post, I'll comment on this.

Very rarely or ever or mass freekills are treated as "oh well it happens." It should be acknowledged, but we still can't act on it without seeing it. 

Perming for a 2nd mass freekill is too harsh imo. We have a protocol set in place for a reason. It's the same with any other rule breaking ie. micspamming, racism, rdming; if they getted banned approx. 3 times in a certain amount of time their banned is either increased or they're permed. 

At some point I believe damaged is decreased once you hit a certain karma, do I think that a damage decrease could be placed somewhere at around 500 or 600? Sure. Do I think that it's going to keep people from RDMing? Probably not.

 

For OP's most, there's no doubt that the server can be lacking in help sometimes. Anyone can see that. Do I think that we could have more admins do their job and tag up and help out when needed instead of just playing "undercover"? Absolutely, but that's not something that I can fix or address myself. However, regular admins like myself and others can only do so much in terms of punishment. As we've mentioned, we can't act on anything we didn't see. We're not investigators. Even if it SAYS in logs that someone "rdmed" or committed a bad action, there's no way for us to verify exactly what happened without witnessing it. Who are we to tell who's lying and who's telling the truth? I'm not going to punish someone just based on someone else's words or logs. The system of punishment hasn't really changed; there's an increase in people on the server because of COVID, people aren't working, people aren't at school. Adding more admins isn't going to change anything in my opinion. We have !calladmin and communicate with each other and say whether or not we can hop on the server. It's inevitable that sometimes someone can't come on when it's needed. It's the same with other servers too.

 

As for lynxie's post, why would we go out of our way to slay someone who rdmed on accident? I don't know about you but having to slay/being slayed for every bad action sucks the fun out of the server, even if you're a regular. 

 

Having something similar to what Venom suggested would be great to have implemented. We typically communicate with each other via admin chat about who we've warned, how many times they been warned etc, but it's difficult to keep track of sometimes with admins coming and leaving the server so frequently all day. 

 

TDLR; I know my post is long, sorry. There's only so much that we can do, however I DO think admin culture could be address and changed, but punishing for every RDM like you guys want us to do isn't feasible. Please bear with us, some of us are really trying to keep the servers clean while not sucking the fun out of it at the same time.

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On 8/29/2020 at 12:01 PM, Charliere said:

Before I put in my opinion on OP's post, I'll comment on this.

Very rarely or ever or mass freekills are treated as "oh well it happens." It should be acknowledged, but we still can't act on it without seeing it. 

Perming for a 2nd mass freekill is too harsh imo. We have a protocol set in place for a reason. It's the same with any other rule breaking ie. micspamming, racism, rdming; if they getted banned approx. 3 times in a certain amount of time their banned is either increased or they're permed. 

At some point I believe damaged is decreased once you hit a certain karma, do I think that a damage decrease could be placed somewhere at around 500 or 600? Sure. Do I think that it's going to keep people from RDMing? Probably not.

 

For OP's most, there's no doubt that the server can be lacking in help sometimes. Anyone can see that. Do I think that we could have more admins do their job and tag up and help out when needed instead of just playing "undercover"? Absolutely, but that's not something that I can fix or address myself. However, regular admins like myself and others can only do so much in terms of punishment. As we've mentioned, we can't act on anything we didn't see. We're not investigators. Even if it SAYS in logs that someone "rdmed" or committed a bad action, there's no way for us to verify exactly what happened without witnessing it. Who are we to tell who's lying and who's telling the truth? I'm not going to punish someone just based on someone else's words or logs. The system of punishment hasn't really changed; there's an increase in people on the server because of COVID, people aren't working, people aren't at school. Adding more admins isn't going to change anything in my opinion. We have !calladmin and communicate with each other and say whether or not we can hop on the server. It's inevitable that sometimes someone can't come on when it's needed. It's the same with other servers too.

 

As for lynxie's post, why would we go out of our way to slay someone who rdmed on accident? I don't know about you but having to slay/being slayed for every bad action sucks the fun out of the server, even if you're a regular. 

 

Having something similar to what Venom suggested would be great to have implemented. We typically communicate with each other via admin chat about who we've warned, how many times they been warned etc, but it's difficult to keep track of sometimes with admins coming and leaving the server so frequently all day. 

 

TDLR; I know my post is long, sorry. There's only so much that we can do, however I DO think admin culture could be address and changed, but punishing for every RDM like you guys want us to do isn't feasible. Please bear with us, some of us are really trying to keep the servers clean while not sucking the fun out of it at the same time.

No where in my response did I mention admins not doing their jobs; I completely understand that admins cannot act unless they see the situation. I don't want to be lumped in with the people saying "admins are shit and aren't doing anything" because that's not true. I still don't think a perm after a 2nd mass freekill is too harsh. I also still stand by that players below 500 karma should be banned.

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The solution you are looking for is to bring some level of investigation to administrating.

 

I've been advocating for this for a while now and there is a more fleshed out response in the CA+ section already. Regardless, most of the issues listed get answered with "Well admins can't do anything unless they see it," as you can see from a few of the posts above. Well, why not change that? The logs are an incredible tool to discern rule-breaking on TTT and JB. Someone gets reported you check logs to find out if it's plausible. Then get the accused's attention and ask them for their side of the story. There are many ways to get their attention; psay, csay, slapping, etc. If their side of the story clarifies that this player broke the rules, then it's a slay. If they jokingly lie and say, "I just felt like it," then that's on them, and that's a slay. They can't go back and appeal or complain because their words and their choices led to the slay even if they had valid reason to kill. 

 

The alternative currently is having admins sit in spec for rounds on end waiting for rdm to occur. This can often lead to more problems when the person who was rdmed get’s frustrated with the lack of administration and subsequently revenge rdm’s. Well now that the admin is spectating the accused, the accuser gets slain leading to more frustration from them and  to them leaving the server or rdming more.

 

Now I understand there is still potential for mistakes, but I believe the risk is low compared to the increase in administration. Having to deal with the occasional appeal due to this is not as bad as the countless people constantly getting away with rdm. And even then, perhaps the solution is raising the number of warnings before banning from one to two to add a safety net from these potential mistakes. The number of legitimate punishments going out would still be sufficient to quickly ban rule-breakers despite this increase. 

 

I also loosely advocate for matching the punishment to the crime, meaning, if someone rdms three people in a round, they should be slain for three rounds. They should experience the loss of rounds that those three people experienced. This would still only count as one warning.

 

I'll avoid going into much more detail than that to avoid making this post any longer. I will say that I haven't seen any solid reasoning against it other than "Admins aren't investigators, so it shouldn't happen." And finally, I don't think this is an idea that can be fleshed out without going over it in a verbal setting as there are many intricacies that can't be discussed easily.

 

Hopefully, you made it this far and thank you for reading.
 

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This is the new info that got pushed out to admins right now. It is kept broad to incorporate freekilling on PB as well. 

 

Hey everyone,

We've had a policy in place where admins were not allowed to punish other players for breaking rules if they did not see the situation unfold. The CA+ team re-evaluated this policy and determined that it would be in our best interest to change how our admins are able to administrate the servers. 

From now on, you don't have to witness a situation unfold with your own eyes to give out punishments. If you can determine a rule was broken through investigation you are allowed to punish for it. While we're being a lot more lenient with acting on these situations, you're still being held accountable for making the right decisions so make sure you're confident in your decision before handing out a punishment. We understand that mistakes happen, but we don't want to see it become a repeat issue.

 

Don't go over the top with this change and investigating; your job as admin is to keep the servers fun.

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Why the hell did this get more attention that my complaint post. I had four pages y’all! In all fairness though, congrats Prayer, you’ve spearheaded the administrator revolution against rule-breakers! Fuck yeah! Can’t wait to hop onto TTT tomorrow.

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