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Noxstar

Wiping Everyone's Times

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So it's been on my mind that a lot of players on the bhop server do not play because "no anti-cheat" or "too many cheated times" and it makes me think that wiping times could be our last ditch effort. I made this thread as thoughts on the idea of doing so after we banned Null/Turn binds & placed an anti-cheat to help aid us. It is basically impossible to filter and go through and pick out every cheated times at this point.

Some pros that came up:

  • Guaranteed no nulled, cheated, or exploited times
  • Everything is refreshed & on the same playing field again
  • Rankings should be adjusted for the benefit of legitimate players

 

Some cons that came up:

  • Feels like a huge slap on the face after playing for so long
  • Everyone is refreshed & loses their times
  • Rankings that a lot of people worked very hard to climb are gone
  • Could be discouraging for players to keep playing again
  • Must get new WR's and most of them will be terrible at the beginning so it will be hard for "good" players to route using it

 

I'm going to <@> anyone I know that plays bunny hop for their opinion. Of course if you were in the discord discussion, feel free to add or ignore.
@Creten @Reid99 @urpalerp @Bowgun44 @Arctic @Sully @Bishop @.x. Saturn and Dredd if you use forums @PotatoAlienOf13 @kuri @iiYuno@Trazz
Sorry if I did not mention you, I listed the ones off the top of my head.

Edited by Noxstar

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No matter what you do in this situation it'll end up with someone being upset. Obviously if you wipe the server all legit times will be gone, but if you don't all the cheated and or null/ab times will stay. I particularly played on bhop a lot so I could get my 50% completion award. I'm not sure with the new forums there are any awards but we'll see. I'm assuming that if you wipe the server everyone's completion % will also drop to 0 as well. It's a little disheartening and like you said, a slap on the face but I wouldn't mind seeing a fresh bhop server. I would like to see some kind of meeting for this as it would be a lot easier to communicate thoughts but that's up to you guys. 

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34 minutes ago, Sully said:

I particularly played on bhop a lot so I could get my 50% completion award. I'm not sure with the new forums there are any awards but we'll see.

Before new forums dropped, this was talked about a long long time ago and I established with higher ups that we would switch ours from completion to play time.

 

34 minutes ago, Sully said:

It's a little disheartening and like you said, a slap on the face but I wouldn't mind seeing a fresh bhop server. I would like to see some kind of meeting for this as it would be a lot easier to communicate thoughts but that's up to you guys. 

Definitely. if this is the route that will be taken which is what it could be looking like, I will have some special things ready for it however some sort of meeting is something I'll get around to do.

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I believe a fresh start wouldn’t be that devastating, as sully said someone’s gonna end up upset about everything you can’t make everyone happy. Wiping times would be the best course of action if you want to get rid of all cheated times. With these precautions I’m sure the good players will have a better time knowing most of the wrs aren’t cheated and are possible with the right routing. I play bhop to improve my strafing and my sync when trying to improve I watch replays of the wrs time and when they’re cheated it’s a slap in the face when you realize you can’t even beat that record with using external assistance.
 

 

 

 

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imma be that upset person, i put in those 25 days on the server for the most completion. everything does come to an end at some point tho, i was arguing that it’s a slap across the face and most ppl might wanna not try again to gain a ton of completion, but at the same time it does provide a fresh start which might encourage new players. there are definitely great points for both sides of the argument and i think the final way to look at it is that if u keep em, ur satisfying a small portion of ppl, while if u were to delete them, u might open doors for a wider range or players. if u do go thru with it tho, rip to my percentage :pleading:

 

edit: but if u do wipe everyone’s time and it doesn’t end up openin doors for new players, we all jus got finessed 

Edited by urpalerp

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2 hours ago, The Don said:

I know Forum Awards are disabled for the time being but will we have to work for them again if they do come back?

If they do become playtime based, like Noxstar mentioned, you won't have to. It would be a slap in the face if it's % and the times are wiped.

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My 100% honest opinion. After a long time bhopping on the server, so long as I get some new [or old >;(  ] high tier maps to run late at night, I really don't care if the times get wiped. I just hit 500 records on the server yesterday anyways; I can get them again regardless . Only reason I really bhop at this point is to do the high t5's and t6 maps. Unpopular opinion or not, that's my two cents.

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Just thought I should mention my thoughts about this, although I understand why it is necessary.

 

I don't however understand why nulls should be banned too, I've been using nulls for a while and don't consider them cheating the same way turn binds or auto-strafing should be. It does seem to give a (slight) advantage with sync but its so slight that I don't see a problem with allowing people to use it, its not like it strafes for you like other scripts, it literally just affects a or d. Every one has the ability to type some simple commands in their console to use nulls, so how is that not the "same playing field"?

 

I started using nulls on SG nearly a year ago, when a SG admin was saying something about them in the bhop server. I asked about them, and he told me what nulls were and said they were completely allowed, and I've been using nulls ever since. The main reasons I chose to play on SG over other servers was 1) the map selection and 2) the fact that nulls were allowed. I completely understand if you are going to ban nulls, as many other servers do, however I would ask you to consider the fact that this may be detrimental to your player count if any other of the regular players use nulls like I do. Or maybe I am just a dirty cheater and there is no one like me, who knows... 

 

As for the times being wiped, sure it sucks but nearly every big server has to wipe times every now and then, its not a huge deal.

 

I fully support whatever decision the staff come to regarding this, but I will say that I am going to keep using nulls. If nulls being banned is a permanent change for this server then I will just find a different server that allows it. 

 

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47 minutes ago, luukee said:

I started using nulls on SG nearly a year ago, when a SG admin was saying something about them in the bhop server. I asked about them, and he told me what nulls were and said they were completely allowed, and I've been using nulls ever since. The main reasons I chose to play on SG over other servers was 1) the map selection and 2) the fact that nulls were allowed. I completely understand if you are going to ban nulls, as many other servers do, however I would ask you to consider the fact that this may be detrimental to your player count if any other of the regular players use nulls like I do. Or maybe I am just a dirty cheater and there is no one like me, who knows... 

Why do you think other servers have banned nulls? They want a level playing field for ALL players. Sure, nulls are obviously no where near as strong as tb's/autostrafing but it still gives an advantage, it might be slight but it's still an advantage. As for the player count, it's expected. I'm sure any other server that decided null's were a no no knew the same "risks" as well. But hey, if almost all servers have nulls banned what's the point of switching?

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I don’t see an issue in wiping everyone’s times. I put a lot of hard work and dedication into my times on bhop but they mean very little to me. I think a fresh start is necessary and would most likely benefit everyone as a whole, although there will obviously be some people who disagree and wouldn’t want times to be wiped at all do to the fact they worked hard for them and do not want to to lose them. As long as I can keep my awards for bhop percentage, my outlook stays the same on this topic. 

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I'm not a fan of wiping everyone's times because people who have a large amount of records will not be happy. I think keeping times is good and just deleting the cheated times as we find them. Even for people who have times that aren't records or even good times, it's good to have a benchmark to see where you are compared to where you were. 

 

There are pros and cons to this. The current player base will either be upset or apathetic towards their times being wiped because it leaves ranks as a clean slate. But, if you do wipe the times it gives opportunities to attract new players to compete for the times because of the limited supply of consistently up 128 tick bhop servers. To reiterate, not a fan of wiping, but there are definitely benefits to doing it. 

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There will obviously people who are gonna complain after this goes through, but this is really the only way we can have clean runs without the use of nulls (other cheats like optis, AHKs, and silent strafes can just be removed as they're easily detectable). The problem is when T4 and T5 runs are being wiped as someone might've been legit and got a godlike run, and its now being wiped for something happening in T1s. This would obviously be a turn off to the server to current players, but could attract new players as they now have the chance to hold a record.

Some players will definitely stop playing, but with the ranks being reset, players will stay to grind out and climb the ranks.

 

 

Edited by 20 scrolls

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I used to be alright with being ok with wiping times but some things kind of blew over my head that I didn’t think about initially when putting my response in here. Like Phoenix and Scrolls have said, there are a lot of godlike records on our servers when it comes to Tier 4’s and Tier 5’s and I guarantee that they will most likely stop playing because all that time they put into that one record was just wiped from them. 
One more thing I wanted to mention was ranks, the rank that some people have including “Legendary” “Godlike” and so fourth took so much time and effort to achieve, and we’re talking months of non stop grinding. Not sure if there is a way to do this but if possible, would be able to keep our ranks but just have all of our times and records swiped from us? This is probably destroying the whole purpose of “a fresh start” in bhop which I understand if that’s the case but I’m just not totally on board with losing my hard earned rank which I think others would feel the same as well. I don’t have any idea which direction this fresh start decision is going at this point. 

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4 hours ago, 20 scrolls said:

There will obviously people who are gonna complain after this goes through, but this is really the only way we can have clean runs without the use of nulls (other cheats like optis, AHKs, and silent strafes can just be removed as they're easily detectable). The problem is when T4 and T5 runs are being wiped as someone might've been legit and got a godlike run, and its now being wiped for something happening in T1s. This would obviously be a turn off to the server to current players, but could attract new players as they now have the chance to hold a record.

Some players will definitely stop playing, but with the ranks being reset, players will stay to grind out and climb the ranks.

 

 

He could look into only wiping t1 and t2 times then if that is where the main problem is and hand picking t4s and t5s. But it is not solely for times cheated with actual programs such as optis and silent strafing. Nulls have been recently banned and there are records with people who used them.

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18 minutes ago, Trazz said:

He could look into only wiping t1 and t2 times then if that is where the main problem is and hand picking t4s and t5s. But it is not solely for times cheated with actual programs such as optis and silent strafing. Nulls have been recently banned and there are records with people who used them.

Yes I know that this came from the nulls being banned, I only mentioned the programs as we can actually detect them unlike nulls. 

On 9/30/2020 at 6:20 PM, phoenix_ said:

I think keeping times is good and just deleting the cheated times as we find them.

Nulls don't perfect your strafes like optis do or make your screen look like spin with autostrafer, they simply just help you by not counter strafing, we really don't have anyway to detect these as the anti cheat doesn't detect the replay bots.

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2 hours ago, Arctic said:

I used to be alright with being ok with wiping times but some things kind of blew over my head that I didn’t think about initially when putting my response in here. Like Phoenix and Scrolls have said, there are a lot of godlike records on our servers when it comes to Tier 4’s and Tier 5’s and I guarantee that they will most likely stop playing because all that time they put into that one record was just wiped from them. 
One more thing I wanted to mention was ranks, the rank that some people have including “Legendary” “Godlike” and so fourth took so much time and effort to achieve, and we’re talking months of non stop grinding. Not sure if there is a way to do this but if possible, would be able to keep our ranks but just have all of our times and records swiped from us? This is probably destroying the whole purpose of “a fresh start” in bhop which I understand if that’s the case but I’m just not totally on board with losing my hard earned rank which I think others would feel the same as well. I don’t have any idea which direction this fresh start decision is going at this point. 

I don't think keeping the ranks would work out, as the points came from the times in the maps, so people could just re farm every map and get a huge boost that will be impossible to beat for new players. Even if they make it so somehow you can't get points from the same map you beat before, I feel its better to just clean the points and attract new players that will stay to grind points out.

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1 hour ago, 20 scrolls said:

I don't think keeping the ranks would work out, as the points came from the times in the maps, so people could just re farm every map and get a huge boost that will be impossible to beat for new players. Even if they make it so somehow you can't get points from the same map you beat before, I feel its better to just clean the points and attract new players that will stay to grind points out.

Yeah as I figured from the start to begin with, kinda should have been obvious to me that this probably wouldn’t work out. But like I said, I don’t think I have the same time span again to reach where I am right now. Since this took a lot of time, effort, and patience throughout the process. 

 

2 hours ago, Trazz said:

He could look into only wiping t1 and t2 times then if that is where the main problem is and hand picking t4s and t5s. But it is not solely for times cheated with actual programs such as optis and silent strafing. Nulls have been recently banned and there are records with people who used them.

I really like this idea a lot more because if I can recall correctly, Tier 1’s, 2’s, and 3’s were the most commonly cheated times. I could be incorrect on this but from what I remember I’m pretty sure this is accurate or at least close to it. 
 

 

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8 minutes ago, urpalerp said:

You know that's the point of wiping everyone's times, right?

I was stating that for the people that want the server wiped.

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As much as I resist my urge to post again, I'll try to cover as much stuff as possible (including future plans which don't correlate to the thread much).

 

From all the feedback I received, I weighed all the pros and cons and it seems that the pros won. Basically, going forward the whole plan is to reset all times, points, everything. This is a restart as times have existed since 2018, and since then have accumulated over 3000 records on some maps. Ranking should also be a little less aggressive as it is at the moment because point weighting is fucked up. If it still breaks for some reason then I'll look into it. I also asked a lot of the regulars that play the servers but don't frequent the forums at all and they were all in agreement for this or just did not care. I've also talked to some "higher level" bhoppers and they all stopped playing SG for typically the same reason that we just have so many cheated times. People are obviously going to be upset but for the most part, it seems that an overwhelming amount of players are for this.

 

So what's the hold up? What's next? I am currently waiting for some plugins to get edited, bugs to get sorted and fixed, and such however it is going to take some time as a lot of it are in forms of a tech request or just me being a lazy fuck. At the moment, I have a lot of things lined up like adding more tier 5's again, removing some shittier maps, more custom stuff & adjustments here and there, readding hard maps *cough* ragequit trazz *cough*, Tier 6?, 2 New Styles??, ALMOST 1000 MORE MAPS???, and more. yeah. Just expect a lot more in the future.

 

So why the fuck does this matter? I basically want to update the server as much as possible to the best it could possibly be. Obviously, it's still littered with a lot of random shit and bugs however this is one of many steps that'll help everyone out - cheated/nulled times, anything that got changed will probably catch up to how I personally want it to be.

 

If you still have any thoughts, please leave a post but this is how it seems to be looking (also excuse my pfp and sig lmao).

Edited by Noxstar

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Sorry for the late reply, I didn't see this until this morning LOL. I haven't hopped in a bit (because of school) but in my opinion I think a wipe would be beneficial for so many people. I work pretty hard to get solid times and it sucks when you feel like your effort is falsely correlated by the results. Also like scrolls stated before, I don't think it's necessary to keep ranks, and it'll just be better to wipe the points and have players grind points out instead. There are so many cheated times nowadays that I'm sure most people wouldn't mind getting a full reset. Hope my opinion helps on this topic. Thanks Noxstar for bringing it up. 

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