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Admin App Voting Change

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Hello everyone,

 

After some discussions, the Board has decided to change the way voting on admin applications works. 

 

Previously voting was public and anyone could vote. In this new change, only CAs and SMs can vote. Applications and votes will still remain public.

 

If you have any questions, please feel free to comment here.

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Big fan of this change considering Rust and Squad have been using this admin application method for some time now but I'm curious to see how it will play out for CSGO.

Also no more dealing with shitposts in applications :thanos:

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Why change it now? I understand sifting through the shitposts and obvious squads of friends who come in out of nowhere to drop a support for someone who's probably not ready, but, why punish those of us who actually can provide solid input on candidates when it's clear who this change is actually about. You should restrict the subforums on a case by case scenario instead of a blanket 'we don't want to deal with this' solution that you're rolling out.

 

On top of that this will only create a 'dick sucking' culture among hopeful applicants towards the staff.

 

Anyways thanks for taking this into consideration.

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All for the change with regards to making it staff only vote, would highly suggest making it so that Senior Administrators can vote as well. Seeing as they are accustomed to being admins they could still provide good input on applications. 

Edited by Hawks

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Any reason behind team manager roles not being able to vote if they aren’t CA+?

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There are some regulars who have valuable input you’d be throwing away because they’re not staff like deli said. Best solution for them in my opinion is to have them apply to vote which in practice probably sounds tedious to go through. I’m sure someone has a better idea 

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With the decision of who gets admin or not going to higher ups anyway,

 

does it matter whether or not a bunch of regs decide to support boost their friend?

 

Is it not easy to at least favor supports/reapplys from other higher ups while keeping an eye for input from regs who may have a massive problem with x getting admin?

Edited by LargeAll

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Worst decision possibly ever made. Yes people can support boost someone out of nowhere but really doesn't do anything since its the higherups and people that have real playtime that make the quality posts on the admin applications and judging that I don't think I've seen a lot of CA's and SM's other than ZZL and Astral and sometimes scrolls on jb this will fuck over the jailbreak community and their ability to actually go for admin since they have no one to go off of. You know who plays the most on the servers that gives input on admin apps those people that you are trying to get rid of. REGULARS. REGULARS play the most out of all CA's and SM's and now you aren't going to get the real shape of a person your going to get single digit occurrences that the CA's and SM's have experienced. I encourage you to change your vote and to repeal this awful rule.

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This change dosent seem to productive considering theres many sas, jas, and regs who give good input on admin apps. At most peoples admin apps would get 3-5 replies (lot of cas and sms dont have insane playtime so they wouldnt even know half the people applying even if there qualified). Even if there all cas and sms I dont think thats anywhere near enough for someone to get admin from. People applying for admin can easily just act like great people around cas and sms and then act like retards in front of regs and jas and still get admin from 3 supports because they fake who they are around higherups. Maybe make it so you have to have atleast 50 posts on the forums to be allowed to reply to admin apps. This stops the random friend groups who just make accs to support there friends and gives regs who actually have good input to respond. 

Edited by BloodBlades

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While I can understand the logic behind this, I think it would really be best if the system we had in place for years remained put. Since the discontinuation of admin recommendations from other staff members, there has been no fundamental change to how voting on admin apps works (iirc). While there are people who shitpost and people who get their friends to make a cluster of supports/reapplys on certain people I think it's still valuable to take into consideration the opinions of those who aren't CA/SM. 

 

Firstly, why were A/SAs excluded from this? They could give just as good, if not better input on players that apply for admin because I am sure they play with the people applying as much, if not more than certain CAs and SMs. For instance, why should someone who exclusively plays ZE only get a realistic chance of getting a reply from a total of like 5-6 people? Even better an example, why would you limit someone who exclusively plays bhop to only really get valuable feedback on the application from two people at most? 

 

Secondly, while As/SAs/CAs/SMs may have many interactions with players in the server, what if a reg/member has had an interaction with an application that was overwhelmingly negative or positive that they wanted to share? Silencing people here does more harm than good if you ask me. I understand there are plenty of responses on applications now that lack substance, I still think it's worth revisiting this and giving people the power to give their two cents on applicants.

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I'm pretty in favor of this. There's been a noticeable issue with staff quality for a while now. What a lot of people don't realize is there are quite a few other communities who have designated teams/individuals which handle admin applications. This change isn't anything crazy. Interested to see how things turn out.

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If anything the rust and other admin apps should be open to the the public too. You guys just rolled out a new way of doing admin apps in other games and used it as justification to switch the long standing process we have overnight with no public discussion beforehand.

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I like this new idea, but the CAs and SMs sometimes don't have as much playtime as some of our regs and JA/SA admins. This would mean that getting accepted would be more exclusive, which I like. Having CAs and SMs vote on admin apps would make sure that the applicant is suitable for admin better than a reg. Plus, restricting admin app replies would lead to less unwanted and off-topic responses.

 

Overall, I think its a good idea.

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With the fact that I don't see many CA's or SM's playing the server, someone who would make an application would have no literal way for the CA-SM to know who they are. 
 

JA's- SA's, and regs can all have positive input on how an applicant can change or do better, or how good they generally are. 

 

And prior to what @phoenix_ said, if there was something that you guys NEEDED to know- how would they go on and about telling you guys? PMing you? From general experience, not all of us get noticed by you guy's, and something serious can fly over your heads. I'm not in favor of this at all.

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I like this idea in removing any shit posts and making it so there are less apps accepted as there may be less opinions meaning that you will have to work harder to make a good impression if you want admin This also w ill remove shitposts or undeserved supports from applications, but I also feel SAs should be able to put input as they might have had their own impressions of the player, and  might have had more playtime with said player than maybe some of the CAs or SMs. I feel this overall is a good idea but some tweaking could be done as to who can respond and who  can't based of off the higher ups' playtimes on  the servers.

Edited by Blossom

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I’m all in for this new rule, there’s been a lot of unnecessary posts on admin applications from some regulars that never shows why that specific person is applying for Administrator. One of the things that I like the most about this new rule is it keeps admin applications from being cluttered into unwanted posts, or not having anything to do about about that person that’s applying or just getting their friends to milk them supports so it gives them better chances. Lots of people put “support” on an application without giving any info of why that person is a good candidate for our servers. Mainly I think this change will be for the best because it throws away the option of people going back and fourth at each other’s throats for their vote, or just arguing for that matter, which is never something we like to see on admin applications specifically. Looking forward to see where this leads in future, and hopefully it’s for good.

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excited to see 70% of admin apps have 2 replies because we dont have many active higherups (on the csgo servers) 

Edited by BloodBlades

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Never seen you on jb which it's very possible we are just off sync in schedule but seeking that you have less than a day in jb I'm going with reapply. Involve yourself in the community and play different servers other than jb to get your name out there. Good luck my man!

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Yea what daft said. Try and play different servers and make a name for yourself next time you apply and join the discord and hang with us! Good luck bud

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Marky Mark Mark you do know that Playtime isnt really a big part about your admin app just about what you can do and what you can provide and benefit the community tbh , I mean in my opinion I dont think your really well known and so therefore with my experiences / interactions I came to a conclusion that nobody on Mg , Ze , 1v1 , FFA know you any bit because you havent gone to explore the either kinda dead servers which dosent make you wanna play em but atleast give em a try and really set a

 

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support

does the funny 1 hit knife then disappear thing

 

edit: i'm just better

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reapply mass freekiller admin pls ban

 

But fr mark is trying to interact more and I dont see him break rules or be toxic so ill drop a support 

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abstain

I you're active on ttt I just wish you were more active on the forums good luck on the app

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see you a lot on ttt, avid rule follower, support

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Support

 

Q has been a friendly reg whom I do not recall having a bad experience with me or others, if not ever. Q is a great pick for admin.

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reapply, toxic, and rdms

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abstain. Don't know you well enough to form a solid opinion  but you seem level headed

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reapply, You seem like a nice guy its just that I personally have not really seen on on TTT until this week 

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reapply, i have seen you on jb but you just dont make your self known. You dont break the rules or disrespect nobody but just wait more time and let people know who you are maybe a few months will work out, getting admin is not that easy.

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reapply I don't think I've ever seen you on jb also kinda a short app. 

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exactly what ero mentioned. Try and involve yourself in the community and one day youll get it.

gl

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Abstain, just dont know you that much i have seen you on jb, you just dont speak up that much, i do have one problem you just joined the formus and your first post is the admin app so be more active on here besies from that, just make yourself more known in other servers besides jb : ) dont think your ready for admin tho.

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Support,he follows the rules and enforces them. He never argues with other players and doesn’t start problems.

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based off this it showed that you dont care if you break rules at night and that can be uhhh quite awful and dosent cause alot of enjoyment so that a reapply from me

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Support

I usually see nevermind enforcing rules and helping out new players when they need it.

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I mean I have 100% activity on JB and I see daichi all the time gonna drop a rare support cause yk he's improved on what people said he would need for admin and I can certainly say he did. The guy is mature. The only problem I have with you daichi is your activity on the forums and discord you have a total of 9 posts and two of them are admin applications be more active everywhere and that's really the only bad thing I got for you.

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Branch out to other servers in sg and take time to make a name for yourself your a nice kid but lack of experience is gonna make me say reapply.

 

I could go on forever but I think you get the point. Yes, we occasionally get good responses from regs but most of the time it is responses like these that are not helpful. We see a lot of responses talking about forum activity but we do not even require that anymore. You don't have to have a certain amount of forum posts or have any kind of "active" forum presence. Some people just want to play the game and help deal with rule breakers. BoTo has like less than 30 public posts or something like that lol.

 

If we were to remove all of the bad admin application responses then we would get an admin application with a bunch of hidden responses and what would that do? What a lot of people do not understand is that you are not obligated to post on literally every single admin application. They might not play on your server or you might have never interacted with them. People still decide vote on these anyways and they drop responses such as "never seen you on my server" or something along those lines. Again.. some people like to play just TTT. There's nothing wrong with that. I just wanted to play Surf. I didn't want to play Jailbreak or MG or ZE. I just played Surf so I applied for Surf admin.

 

I have scrolled through a lot of admin responses and seen a lot of crappy and half assed responses from Regs and Admins and then I see a nice thoroughly written response from someone who is CA or higher. I've seen a lot of admin applications that are filled with useless posts but then I come across a post from ZZL, Arctic, Hawks, or any other higher up staff member and they thoroughly explain their reason for voting and their experience with said applicant. Often times these responses from regs or admins are saying they are in support for the applicant but then a higher up will say that they are in fact not ready for admin. Which response do you think we value more? The reg or the higher up? Higher ups have been staff for much longer and they know how things work. They know what to look for in an applicant. A lot of the people responding have never even been admin. Over the past couple of months the CAs have been telling us that the quality of our admins has been in decline and it is pretty clear to see in some cases. A lot of this supposed dick sucking that will happen has always happened. This change in system isn't gonna change whose dick is gonna get sucked. You apply for admin and a bunch of your friends reply in support of you and then we give you admin and you get 3 admin complaints within 3 months. 

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33 minutes ago, Arctic said:

I’m all in for this new rule, there’s been a lot of unnecessary posts on admin applications from some regulars that never shows why that specific person is applying for Administrator. One of the things that I like the most about this new rule is it keeps admin applications from being cluttered into unwanted posts, or not having anything to do about about that person that’s applying or just getting their friends to milk them supports so it gives them better chances. Lots of people put “support” on an application without giving any info of why that person is a good candidate for our servers. Mainly I think this change will be for the best because it throws away the option of people going back and fourth at each other’s throats for their vote, or just arguing for that matter, which is never something we like to see on admin applications specifically. Looking forward to see where this leads in future, and hopefully it’s for good.

Tl;dr I'm annoyed I have to do housekeeping on threads sometimes and read dumb opinions

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4 hours ago, delirium said:

Why change it now? I understand sifting through the shitposts and obvious squads of friends who come in out of nowhere to drop a support for someone who's probably not ready, but, why punish those of us who actually can provide solid input on candidates when it's clear who this change is actually about. You should restrict the subforums on a case by case scenario instead of a blanket 'we don't want to deal with this' solution that you're rolling out.

 

On top of that this will only create a 'dick sucking' culture among hopeful applicants towards the staff.

 

Anyways thanks for taking this into consideration.

Unfortunately some who do make solid input in votes will be "punished". Restricting to a case-by-case basis isn't a feasible option as there isn't a fair way of making a criteria to determine who would get it and you'll have members who feel they should be included but aren't. Doing a blanket change is the most fair way of implementing this change.

 

3 hours ago, Poke said:

Any reason behind team manager roles not being able to vote if they aren’t CA+?

Why would they? Team Managers don't have authority in our admin structure. To quote another Board member from when we were discussing this, "it's like the supervisor of the bakery department determining the inventory for the meat department".

 

3 hours ago, thuxys said:

There are some regulars who have valuable input you’d be throwing away because they’re not staff like deli said. Best solution for them in my opinion is to have them apply to vote which in practice probably sounds tedious to go through. I’m sure someone has a better idea 

As I mentioned in my reply to deli about this, having a whitelist of people who can vote and aren't CA+ wouldn't be fair as it'd just be personal opinions on who would be eligible.

 

3 hours ago, LargeAll said:

With the decision of who gets admin or not going to higher ups anyway,

 

does it matter whether or not a bunch of regs decide to support boost their friend?

 

Is it not easy to at least favor supports/reapplys from other higher ups while keeping an eye for input from regs who may have a massive problem with x getting admin?

If we favored just supports/reapplies from CA+ anyway, it'd pretty much be this system anyway.

 

2 hours ago, dolo said:

Worst decision possibly ever made. Yes people can support boost someone out of nowhere but really doesn't do anything since its the higherups and people that have real playtime that make the quality posts on the admin applications and judging that I don't think I've seen a lot of CA's and SM's other than ZZL and Astral and sometimes scrolls on jb this will fuck over the jailbreak community and their ability to actually go for admin since they have no one to go off of. You know who plays the most on the servers that gives input on admin apps those people that you are trying to get rid of. REGULARS. REGULARS play the most out of all CA's and SM's and now you aren't going to get the real shape of a person your going to get single digit occurrences that the CA's and SM's have experienced. I encourage you to change your vote and to repeal this awful rule.

This is a great example of making a judgement without the facts. We're not just changing who can vote and calling it a day. We're well aware of how many CA+ vote and how much they play/what servers they play. We've communicated our expectations to the CA+.

 

2 hours ago, BloodBlades said:

This change dosent seem to productive considering theres many sas, jas, and regs who give good input on admin apps. At most peoples admin apps would get 3-5 replies (lot of cas and sms dont have insane playtime so they wouldnt even know half the people applying even if there qualified). Even if there all cas and sms I dont think thats anywhere near enough for someone to get admin from. People applying for admin can easily just act like great people around cas and sms and then act like retards in front of regs and jas and still get admin from 3 supports because they fake who they are around higherups. Maybe make it so you have to have atleast 50 posts on the forums to be allowed to reply to admin apps. This stops the random friend groups who just make accs to support there friends and gives regs who actually have good input to respond. 

Again, we've communicated our expectations. With ~30 CA+, there shouldn't be apps that receive 3-5 replies. If that happens, we'll notice and it'll be fixed.

 

1 hour ago, delirium said:

If anything the rust and other admin apps should be open to the the public too. You guys just rolled out a new way of doing admin apps in other games and used it as justification to switch the long standing process we have overnight with no public discussion beforehand.

This has been long discussed. It was just a coincidence that Rust and Squad had a similar process to this beforehand.

 

1 hour ago, lyn said:

With the fact that I don't see many CA's or SM's playing the server, someone who would make an application would have no literal way for the CA-SM to know who they are. 
 

JA's- SA's, and regs can all have positive input on how an applicant can change or do better, or how good they generally are. 

 

And prior to what @phoenix_ said, if there was something that you guys NEEDED to know- how would they go on and about telling you guys? PMing you? From general experience, not all of us get noticed by you guy's, and something serious can fly over your heads. I'm not in favor of this at all.

As I've mentioned above, we've made server activity expectations clear. We're well aware that this system wouldn't be effective if changes weren't made to CA+ server activity. If there is something that we absolutely must know, it can always be PM'd to an IA or BD.

 

I'm also curious what you would consider "something serious can fly over your heads" as I can guarantee we research each applicant enough before approving an app to know if there is something serious.

 

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

While I expected some people to be unhappy, I wasn't expecting so many, so I should have mentioned in the OP that this is the first step towards some further changes that are still be discussed. As those changes are finalized and pushed out, it'll be clear why we've decided to move towards this voting system.

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I think that this change is interesting, and I'd like to see how admin applications change and move forward from this point. While I do think that a lot of regulars do have good opinions, and unfortunately they won't be able to voice those opinions on applications anymore, it's always been the same: opinions and input from higher-up staff members always hold more weight. Back when I applied for admin and got it in April of last year, I had something along the lines of 20 supports from regulars. I'd ask around for my chances and people would still say that my application was iffy because I didn't have too much support from any administrators or higher-ups (CA+).

 

There is some valid point to the argument that CAs and SMs probably don't have the same level of playtime as regulars, or even server administrators, but I think that an important point to be made is that although forum activity isn't really required, integrating oneself into the community is. You're not going to be able to get into a staff rank if nobody knows who you are. Integrating yourself into the community is a very broad idea, and can be done through the forums, can be done through the Discord, or on the servers themselves. When you put yourself out there and meet new people, it can be seen what kind of person you are and if you have the necessary traits/skills or whatever to hold a staff position.

 

Another point is that probably half of the regulars and even some of the staff, including server administrators themselves, have no clue how to vote on applications. John's post above with all of the quotes is a perfect representation of this. Yes, this does mean that the few regulars and lower staff who do put effort and time into their votes and think about what they're going to say won't be able to do so anymore, but I think that overall this is a step in the right direction.

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Have to agree with the BDs decision on this one admin apps recently have been a bit iffy. This should keep them more serious. Like Gator and John have said it's not like no research is done before accepting an admin app if they have concerns they will make it know. But I do agree with opening it up to more than just SMs and CAs. Even if you just add SAs you have more people that closely interact with the applicants in the servers.

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9 minutes ago, Gator said:

This is a great example of making a judgement without the facts. We're not just changing who can vote and calling it a day. We're well aware of how many CA+ vote and how much they play/what servers they play. We've communicated our expectations to the CA+.

 

if communicated expectations are not met then will they be enforced seeing SG's recent activity of not doing anything about inactive CA+'s I expect it wont be. Ill be ready for 2 replies on my admin application but now that I've pissed off the cock sucking pussies that only look up to you for a future position I guess that I should expect some reapplies from people that haven't played a game with me once

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Honestly doesn’t sound that bad at all. Personally I always liked how it used to be private with SA+. Either way I think it’s a good step into the future of SG. I know I have not put too much effort into my replies to admin apps so my fault. Shit like this happens when we don’t follow protocol. Got my support 

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5 minutes ago, dolo said:

if communicated expectations are not met then will they be enforced seeing SG's recent activity of not doing anything about inactive CA+'s I expect it wont be. Ill be ready for 2 replies on my admin application but now that I've pissed off the cock sucking pussies that only look up to you for a future position I guess that I should expect some reapplies from people that haven't played a game with me once

You don't have to worry about getting a future position anymore, so that won't be a problem.

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