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Admin App Voting Change

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31 minutes ago, dolo said:

seeing SG's recent activity of not doing anything about inactive CA+'s I expect it wont be

Too bad you're too ignorant to know we keep tabs of activity of all admin ranks across SG. CAs & SMs are not as inactive as you might think they are or will be. Some are excused for irl shit because things take priority over a gaming community rank, but doesn't mean they're doing fuck all in SG just because some of their activity has dipped. 

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50 minutes ago, Gator said:

While I expected some people to be unhappy, I wasn't expecting so many, so I should have mentioned in the OP that this is the first step towards some further changes that are still be discussed. As those changes are finalized and pushed out, it'll be clear why we've decided to move towards this voting system.

Well, after the replies from John and yourself it's clear that this change is more understandable. Not that applying for admin really has any effect on me anymore, but I guess when I was looking at it from my perspective this change didn't make much sense. To be fair, there are CA+ who interact with applicants outside of the game servers on Discord and the forums and can probably give some sort of input. 

 

I don't fully agree with this change still (not that it really matters, lol), but I'm excited to see what's coming in the future. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, dolo said:

if communicated expectations are not met then will they be enforced seeing SG's recent activity of not doing anything about inactive CA+'s I expect it wont be. Ill be ready for 2 replies on my admin application but now that I've pissed off the cock sucking pussies that only look up to you for a future position I guess that I should expect some reapplies from people that haven't played a game with me once

Yikes.

 

Considering that all of your skin names on the servers are "Dolo 4 Admin" and every time I check the forums I see you talking about applying for admin, it's quite funny to me to see how in one message you've pretty much lost everyone's respect. 

 

Touching upon the baseless accusation that SG has a recent activity of "not doing anything about inactive CA+'s", I remember distinctly back when I was CA and Kieran and Gentoo were the LAs, we were explicitly told that there would be changes and activity would be of importance to retaining our positions. Now that was all the way back in early July I believe, but I know the current LAs pretty well (at least I would believe I do), and @Maniacis my homie. I don't doubt that all of them have been or are currently are able to manage a team properly and if you're going to use this as a springboard to lash out against how you think SG should be run, and flaws you see in particular team structures, the least that you could do is provide some accompanying evidence.

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Initially, I completely disagreed, but I think this makes sense considering regulars never had a say in who get's accepted anyway.

 

On the other hand, higher-ups aren't nearly as active as regulars (which is fine), but don't get the chance to interact with as many people as other regulars do.

 

I'd recommend using some sort of separation between responses of regulars and responses and opinions of the people that make the decisions, rather than just barricading regulars off entirely.

 

All in all, fair change.

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they wanted to make admin apps require a 90% approval and a $50 down payment

 

 

this is the best i could talk them down

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3 hours ago, Black Rain said:

Too bad you're too ignorant to know we keep tabs of activity of all admin ranks across SG. CAs & SMs are not as inactive as you might think they are or will be. Some are excused for irl shit because things take priority over a gaming community rank, but doesn't mean they're doing fuck all in SG just because some of their activity has dipped. 

Except for you because you suck

 

$25 down payment or riot.

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14 minutes ago, dafty said:

On the other hand, higher-ups aren't nearly as active as regulars (which is fine), but don't get the chance to interact with as many people as other regulars do

thats not entirely true as I am always on everyday even though i just had a daughter recently and dont really have much time to play but i still hop onto spec while holding onto my daughter and watch you and afterpot rdming each other on 1/5/2021. I'm always on spec even though you guys think we're not on watching, we are. although im not so sure about the others i know that i am. If i see a good candidate who enforce rules and have a good attitude and is being helpful, i will recommend him for admin. If i see someone like you or afterpot who rdm each other not caring about the rules, i will reapply 

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Just curious.

 

For the people can't write down on the admin applications themselves can they still put in a good word for them? I know the whole purpose was to have the bar for voters to be CA+ but, if someone is doing a really good job and the CA+'s don't really see it could we put in a good word for them and if so how?

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21 minutes ago, Yang said:

thats not entirely true as I am always on everyday even though i just had a daughter recently and dont really have much time to play but i still hop onto spec while holding onto my daughter and watch you and afterpot rdming each other on 1/5/2021. I'm always on spec even though you guys think we're not on watching, we are. although im not so sure about the others i know that i am. If i see a good candidate who enforce rules and have a good attitude and is being helpful, i will recommend him for admin. If i see someone like you or afterpot who rdm each other not caring about the rules, i will reapply 

I said it's completely fine for higherups to not be as active, obviously real life happens and is far more important. It was a pretty general statement and it's no secret that some higherups don't play on the servers as much as most of the regulars, and there's nothing wrong with that but it's a fact.

 

Me and Afterpot were messing around and it was consensual on both sides and we were having fun, but if you want to take a blanket statement personally too go ahead.

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3 hours ago, dafty said:

Me and Afterpot were messing around and it was consensual on both sides and we were having fun, but if you want to take a blanket statement personally too go ahead.

Consensual you say? Still banning you.     Uh Oh. Paragraph indent... This gon be a long one fo sho.

 

     For real though.

I'm in favour of the change but do agree that it will need some tweaks & improvements in the future for this to run efficiently and as you guys planned it to.

There has been a noticeable quality drop in the lower ranks of our staff and I hope this change will better vet our ranks.

Not going to be naming individuals but there has been staff members including myself that believe that there needs to be a better system of granting administrator to individuals and the quality of our administrators.

I am in no way saying that our administrators are bad or are unable to perform but there have been some questionable applicants that I and others have seen.

     When it comes to "shitposting", yes that is a reason why I support the change to higher ranks.

When I'm looking for someone that I would support for being a quality administrator, I don't want to see 20 hidden posts of "SUPPORT! GREAT GUY", "REAPPLY, HE TRIED TO ABDUCT ME. jk support." or someone putting images of random stuff.

We're there to look for a quality person that could help our servers, not childish antics that make the applicant look like they hang out with children and only want powers because "it's cool".

Now applications are judged by the applicant and not "always" the people voting but association is still looked at. If I were in charge of applications and I had the choice between someone who had 10 responses from individuals that took the time to write quality response's and gave legitimate reasons to promote them vs someone who got 30 responses like the examples I listed above, I would promote the first guy because I have a higher level of trust in their capabilities and maturity level. (Solely based of the responses given/association)

 

     Now.

Regulars are vital in keeping the servers running and are key in bringing in new players by interacting with them and making them want to come back but Regulars don't have the same amount of commitment or investment in SG as people holding higher staff ranks. (Yes there are some that are invested by playing everyday but this is a different level of commitment)

If 20 Regulars just all at once drop SG as their go to server, yes it takes a large hit by removing parts of our playerbase but if 10 SM's drop SG all at once, everything goes into chaos. (Who's going to run the server? Who's going to provide updates to it? Who's going to make sure that any bugs are fixed for the players? Nobody)

So while Regulars, JA's & SA's may have more personal experience to give for an applicant, CA's SM's etc... have a higher level of standards for who they want to administrate on their servers and their community.

If something is "Need to Know" for an applicant then PMing is a useful feature to have your voice heard, if you PM giving a truly terrible experience with an applicant then giving that information to a "Voter" will most likely cause them to reevaluate their stance if they had a positive opinion prior.

 

     I would support a change to make SA's able to vote on applications but would leave JA's out of the discussion.

JA's more often then not are still Regulars with minimal powers to keep the servers clean, they haven't been around (on a staff level) long enough to provide true insight on changes that would improve the community as a whole. ie. Picking out new staff members.

People (of all ages) tend to admire others higher than them and will tend to befriend or communicate with them in order to raise their own social standing.

I see quite a lot of people doing it whenever someone is promoted to JA and a lot of the time I see JA's and sometimes SA's fall to it and end up supporting them when said person applies for administrator even though they would not be a good fit.

Staff at higher ranks are often older, don't fall for it and will keep their personal opinions of people aside while making decisions that affect the community. (I've reapplied/rejected people who I have not one issue with personally but on a staff standpoint I know their either not a good fit or simply not ready yet)

 

Overall, I'm hopeful for this new change and hope it fixes existing issue's that SG has been having.

 

Edited by Mace

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I couldn't be bothered to read through everyone's replies. 

I suppose people have hit on this already but I don't believe this is fair to servers that don't get much attention. I know Gator mentioned something about communicating to the CAs about this, which I guess means play a lot more on the servers (I'm sure they won't get burnt out).  Even so MG never has staff that's too dedicated to the server, or staff that exceeds SA for a long period of time. I got two supports on my admin app by two admins at the time. There was no CA , SR , or SM that could of recognized  me back then. All I did was play MG, I made forums posts and didn't touch TS. Nobody knew about me besides the regs. I had to go out of my way to play on a server like JB because I knew there were more staff to see me there. Idk just seems tough for servers that have less staff.

Another thing I saw Kieran mention was an issue with "staff quality". I think you can attribute that when the 100 post rule that got changed and slowly went down to zero post requirements. Now if anything the current rule doesn't make too much sense if we implement this.

So I get that you mentioned there is no "whitelist" for non staff members to vote on the application, but what about past staff members. Obviously you've thought of this but how is it fair if I was staff one day got demoted or stepped down the next day then someone who I knew was a great member on a server applies and I wouldn't be able to support. In my application Dominic supported my admin app but this was a couple days after he stepped down. Having someone who was a previous AT manager (I believe) support your app was a big deal and I think that might of swayed the opinion of getting my application approved. That vote wouldn't be able to happen if this rule was in place.

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In my opinion, I think this is a great change, since regulars' opinions didn't really affect the outcome of the decision anyways.

Edited by P3nny

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I do like where this change is headed.

 

While some people could make the argument that this change does promote this rank chasing attitude (the attitude of chasing and only seeking out people with ranks like CA) but, I do think you are incorrect. Rank chasing will always be present in anything with a structure of power, but I do not believe this change will create much more of it. Of course, it could affect a few people's votes, but if you are ready for a staff position or you are not ready, the majority will still be the truth. Not only that but, CA+ votes and general staff votes have always been "worth" more than random reg votes; This system is not that much different.

 

Another point is that CA+ are usually not as active as the rest. Now I do believe this is true to an extent, but you do have to take into account how many JAs/SAs there are compared to CA+. Just looking at pure statistics, there will always be someone more active as a JA/SA. This idea, you will not be known by any of the CA+ when you are applying well, that's on you because then you aren't ready and haven't bonded and or been with the community long enough.
Going with this point, I think we will see a lot more activity with CA+ anyway (though for the most part, their activity was all ready great). Especially at the higher ranks activity is heavily monitored and while, before a person with not the best activity might be fine, their activity will show a lot more now through this system.

 

Anyway, IDK why I am even writing this not planning on applying in the foreseeable future lmao so, it doesn't really matter to me :P
For real though, it's good to see this change. I do think it will bring a lot of beneficial aspects with it, including a raise in general qualifications and quality of people in staff positions.

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On 1/11/2021 at 8:30 AM, dolo said:

seen a lot of CA's and SM's other than ZZL and Astral and sometimes scrolls on jb

just because you dont see them doesnt mean they arent watching.

 

 

mr def is caution with a voice changer change my mind

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On 1/10/2021 at 11:55 AM, Gator said:

Hello everyone,

 

After some discussions, the Board has decided to change the way voting on admin applications works. 

 

Previously voting was public and anyone could vote. In this new change, only CAs and SMs can vote. Applications and votes will still remain public.

 

If you have any questions, please feel free to comment here.

Only CAs and SMs really? Most of them rarely go the servers and are too busy anyway let alone acknowledge good amount of regulars long enough to even give input of their decision of the few times they prob met the person. I understand there are people that support their friends wo reason and know thats an issue but doing this will make it more time consuming and even more harder for both the voters and the people that apply already. Why so restricted for all other staff to not allowed to vote?

Edited by Starlegendgod

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14 minutes ago, Starlegendgod said:

Only CAs and SMs really? Most of them rarely go the servers and are too busy anyway let alone acknowledge good amount of regulars long enough to even give input of their decision of the few times they prob met the person. I understand there are people that support their friends wo reason and know thats an issue but doing this will make it more time consuming and even more harder for both the voters and the people that apply already. Why so restricted for all other staff to not allowed to vote?

ec1cb4c8368f601f3bf9b34d52dcd33967-10-sk

 

would it kill you to read before posting?

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13 hours ago, Starlegendgod said:

Only CAs and SMs really? Most of them rarely go the servers and are too busy anyway let alone acknowledge good amount of regulars long enough to even give input of their decision of the few times they prob met the person. I understand there are people that support their friends wo reason and know thats an issue but doing this will make it more time consuming and even more harder for both the voters and the people that apply already. Why so restricted for all other staff to not allowed to vote?

     This change is pretty much quality assurance to make sure the right people are getting let up the ranks.

If you want to have your opinion known then tell a voter and they'll use that information for when they give their vote.

We are not as inactive as you may think, we are all still very close to our respective servers & the playerbase.

If someone is a quality applicant then we will recognize that waay before they apply.

 

Other staff are free too voice their opinions in pm's on the Forums or dm's on Discord but the higher rank you are, in most cases the more you opinion means due to responsibilities and the effort put forth to get to the higher-up ranks.

So higher ranks have higher standards and aren't going to support someone when they clearly aren't a good fit. (If you read my first post I go into this more.)

Edited by Mace

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