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Caution

Adjusting to Changing Times

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51 minutes ago, Cept For Her said:

I don't think banning a specific word is the right way to go about this. There are other words that are viewed to be the same level of disrespect with very similar meaning, eg. "dyke, homo, etc"(a quick google search can find you these). You may be banning these words through your "(along with any variation of this)", however that is not explicitly stated and therefore there is argument against their being banned words. My problem here is not that offensive words are being banned, but the fact that a specific word is being cherry picked to be banned because it is used more commonly than other words. If you're taking a stance against this type of language you should be banning every word that has similar meaning. 

We're not looking to be the word police, but more just keep up with not allowing completely unacceptable terms while also being lenient enough to what is generally accepted on the internet. This is not some safe haven for everyone to feel warm and fuzzy with no harmful or hateful words ever, but we are at least striving for some decency. I'll clarify below why this matters.

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The biggest problem I have with the ban on this word is that SG allows the use of racial slurs on its platforms(and btw, I see no rule against using these slurs under the forum rules). Unless it got changed recently without me knowing, SG has been taking of the stance of allowing potentially offensive words to be used, but judging punishment based upon the context of the conversation in which it is being used. Friendly banter is very different than targeted harassment, as I expect everyone to know by now. These types of words should fall under the same ruling as racial slurs do, in that we can ban them in text form on the forums and discord and wherever, but allow the use in voice conversation and the servers, with punishment relying on the context of the conversation.

No, we do not allow racial slurs. We briefly allowed for the use of the word 'nigga'...call it a social experiment, call it influence from a particular man in red...whatever. That era is now over. As for any other racial slur, 100% of them are used, in essence, a derogatory fashion falling under disrespect, harassment, racism, etc. Now we could come out and write a rule that says 'no racial slurs' if that would satisfy you and others who are trying to break this down a bit too much, but we have always and will always punish for the use of racial slurs.

 

To the point above, we have a list (which I will post below) of words that are quite simply hard banned racial slurs, i.e. if these words are uttered out of your mouth you are likely going to get punished very quickly, particularly with repeated use post warning. Now of course, comes the question of why isn't every known racial slur ever in all of mankind's history in the list. Fuck off. Okay so obviously listing every word is just nonsense (90-95% of listed slurs are rarely if ever used), so our approach is to more address the *most common use words* as to help really emphasize the environment we are trying to create without getting ridiculous as well as staying up with the times. There are words like 'chink' that you don't really hear much at all on the internet anymore, but it was more prevalent maybe 10 years ago, it is on the list. There are words like 'Barbarian' which is a term(slur) from Greece to describe Non-greek people, which would never make it on the list or really be applied in a harassment/discrimination type setting. Then we get down to a word like @daftybrought up, 'zipperhead', which some kid could say in a way that they are unaware of it being a slur, but also could be put under harassment or could even make it onto our list down the line if it became prevalent.

Hopefully with the examples above, you and others can see how applying a healthy combination of a 'do not use these words ever' list along with addressing other varying harassment and disrespect cases gives us the most amount of free movement within our own rules to make the best decisions as these things come up. Adding 'faggot' to the list is our way of addressing a word that is becoming problematic in societal use and therefore was deemed as something we didn't think any of our player base really wanted to be hearing or seeing.

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One last thing with this paragraph, you mention this word will be treated like any other word on the banned list. I can not find the banned list anywhere, if someone would kindly direct me to where that is, that would be helpful. To my knowledge it was actually removed a year ago via the post quoted below.

  

However, you state that banned words list is still active, and with this word being hard banned on all platforms, its probably best to have a public display of banned words to this degree.

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(Nigga)

(Faggot, Fag, Faggy, etc.)

This list has changed several times over there years, for example there used to be a time nigga was on there (previously) and there was a time when the term 'Spear Chucker' wasn't a problem. This list can be added onto as necessary and has always been listed at least at an admin level, but is currently listed here:

If for some crazy reason the usage of slurs gets out of hand (which is highly unlikely) then we can look to add on more words or make a rule that says 'no racial slurs', but again...the waters get dicey when you make blanket statements like that, and overall it doesn't seem like it would come down to that. Most of the arguments in thread are really based in semantics and fail to account for the obvious human factor of rule enforcement and punishment.

 

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  Just want to actually thank you and the board for finally clarifying this on a public level. I have explained it in the past to people who have argued "If the channel is locked, I can say whatever I want and its not against the rules". Its good to have a place I can point them to for the official stance on that ruling.

To clarify our previous stance was in fact what people had argued with you, however we're tired of the debates and the squabbling over it so we've decided to move to more of a: you dig your own grave if you decide to do it and get caught / reported.

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16 minutes ago, BoM said:

No, we do not allow racial slurs. We briefly allowed for the use of the word 'nigga'...call it a social experiment, call it influence from a particular man in red...whatever. That era is now over. As for any other racial slur, 100% of them are used, in essence, a derogatory fashion falling under disrespect, harassment, racism, etc. Now we could come out and write a rule that says 'no racial slurs' if that would satisfy you and others who are trying to break this down a bit too much, but we have always and will always punish for the use of racial slurs.

When tf did yall retract the ruling for racial slurs on the servers? I don't remember a single post about that, and the pinned post in announcements states that "light jokes are ok, but use of the hard R is strictly prohibited". If this isn't the case then yall gotta update your pinned posts so there isn't confusion about what the current rules are. I don't actually care what the rule is behind this, but it seems to have changed with little or no communication to the community, unless i missed a major announcement thread.

 

 

26 minutes ago, BoM said:

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(Nigga)

(Faggot, Fag, Faggy, etc.)

This list has changed several times over there years, for example there used to be a time nigga was on there (previously) and there was a time when the term 'Spear Chucker' wasn't a problem. This list can be added onto as necessary and has always been listed at least at an admin level, but is currently listed here:

I appreciate you telling me this is where the banned words list is, but it simply isn't. If you read the actual post this list is from you find:

  

On 9/22/2020 at 11:46 AM, Caution said:

This is going to be two-part, covering ban policy in general & ban lengths. As it stands now, here are the basic admin rules regarding ban lengths and whatnot:

containing the list you posted above, followed by:

  

On 9/22/2020 at 11:46 AM, Caution said:

Moving forward, this is what it shall be:

Which shows no mention of a "Bannable Words" list, as it was mentioned earlier in the post that it was going to removed since "We all know what should and should not be on that list". There is no current public display of a Bannable Words list, and if you're following one then there should be public mention of it, and it should be consistently updated with new words you decide to add to it, so people who don't view those words as offensive, or only use them in a friendly, joking manner, know that they shouldn't be used at this community.

 

The best place to put it would probably be under the Guides section alongside the Forum/Discord rules, and while you're at it, you should add a ban policy section as well, because there's no reason for the ban times to be private information. It would allow users unfamiliar with this community to know if they were punished for longer than they should have been.

 

  

38 minutes ago, BoM said:

To clarify our previous stance was in fact what people had argued with you, however we're tired of the debates and the squabbling over it so we've decided to move to more of a: you dig your own grave if you decide to do it and get caught / reported.

Again, if you look in the pinned post of Ban Policy & Racism: 

  

On 9/22/2020 at 11:46 AM, Caution said:

However, if you're in a private channel among friends and no one reports anything, did it actually happen? I'm going to leave it at that. 

Your stance was exactly as it is now, it was never allowed to break the rules in private channels, it was just said that if you do do it, you better hope nobody in the channel reports you.

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2 minutes ago, Cept For Her said:

When tf did yall retract the ruling for racial slurs on the servers? I don't remember a single post about that, and the pinned post in announcements states that "light jokes are ok, but use of the hard R is strictly prohibited". If this isn't the case then yall gotta update your pinned posts so there isn't confusion about what the current rules are. I don't actually care what the rule is behind this, but it seems to have changed with little or no communication to the community, unless i missed a major announcement thread.

This was mostly in regards to 'nigga', which as of this thread has been retracted. Will continue to clarify and update things where able, but again...outside of 'nigga' racial slurs *have never been allowed*.

 

2 minutes ago, Cept For Her said:

 

 

I appreciate you telling me this is where the banned words list is, but it simply isn't. If you read the actual post this list is from you find:

  

containing the list you posted above, followed by:

  

Which shows no mention of a "Bannable Words" list, as it was mentioned earlier in the post that it was going to removed since "We all know what should and should not be on that list". There is no current public display of a Bannable Words list, and if you're following one then there should be public mention of it, and it should be consistently updated with new words you decide to add to it, so people who don't view those words as offensive, or only use them in a friendly, joking manner, know that they shouldn't be used at this community.

 

The best place to put it would probably be under the Guides section alongside the Forum/Discord rules, and while you're at it, you should add a ban policy section as well, because there's no reason for the ban times to be private information. It would allow users unfamiliar with this community to know if they were punished for longer than they should have been.

List no list, idk what to tell you Caution was drunk that day or something. If people need a list instead of being told 'don't be fucking stupid and use clearly obvious slurs' then we will make a big glorious list. Honestly pointless convo man I'm sorry. Like just don't use slurs @everyone.

 

2 minutes ago, Cept For Her said:

 Your stance was exactly as it is now, it was never allowed to break the rules in private channels, it was just said that if you do do it, you better hope nobody in the channel reports you.

Ehh its a subtle difference but a lot of people are more likely to continue doing things when we are clearly lax and lenient on it (basically turned a blind eye to it), however now we're just flat out saying we don't allow it or want to hear about it ever or people will be getting quickly punished..demoted..etc.

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Whether or not you agree with the decision the fact remains that this is a step towards being a more inclusive and mainstream community. How is marketing supposed to do their job if people who may be interested in running sponsored events or something come on the servers and hear a bunch of socially unacceptable language? In terms of pushing the community itself forward this is one of many hard decisions that has to be made if this place wants any actual success in the current social climate.

Edited by delirium
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cant you say that word in a non offensive way anyways like old*** or new***

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8 hours ago, Aster said:

cant you say that word in a non offensive way anyways like old*** or new***

No.

 

Using a compound word where you're clearly just tacking on the f-slur to another word is akin to using the word itself. 

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7 hours ago, Phoenix_ said:

No.

 

Using a compound word where you're clearly just tacking on the f-slur to another word is akin to using the word itself. 

your kinda missing the point of what I said 😕 

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16 hours ago, Aster said:

cant you say that word in a non offensive way anyways like old*** or new***

the word, and another ways to call someone a *** is banned

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1 hour ago, diryathing said:

Yeah cause my earbuds repeats whatever you or my roommate says

You need to tell your dirty sock to shut up.

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On 9/22/2021 at 8:20 PM, delirium said:

Whether or not you agree with the decision the fact remains that this is a step towards being a more inclusive and mainstream community. How is marketing supposed to do their job if people who may be interested in running sponsored events or something come on the servers and hear a bunch of socially unacceptable language? In terms of pushing the community itself forward this is one of many hard decisions that has to be made if this place wants any actual success in the current social climate.

This, pushes more to the idea that @dafty and @Cept For Her said, being that there should be no "trigger words" allowed. If the media team is worried about the things the players say and do on server affecting advertisement, then it's either none of it, or better editing done in post. If people calling one another f@gs doesn't look good, how is "bitch", "cunt", or "fucker" going to seem any better.


All in all, seems like a safe move. It's easier to market anything without twelve year olds saying homophobic slurs. But, it is a half measure.
 

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2 hours ago, Enderspine said:

This, pushes more to the idea that @dafty and @Cept For Her said, being that there should be no "trigger words" allowed. If the media team is worried about the things the players say and do on server affecting advertisement, then it's either none of it, or better editing done in post. If people calling one another f@gs doesn't look good, how is "bitch", "cunt", or "fucker" going to seem any better.


All in all, seems like a safe move. It's easier to market anything without twelve year olds saying homophobic slurs. But, it is a half measure.
 

I agree it's a half measure at the moment but the words you used for your example won't exactly get you demonitized on the major platforms yet although excessive use can be annoying. 

 

If anything this is probably the just the start. If you rush into something like this you'll piss a lot of people off at the same time. If you slowly take them away the backlash is minimal.

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On 9/23/2021 at 9:18 AM, Phoenix_ said:

No.

 

Using a compound word where you're clearly just tacking on the f-slur to another word is akin to using the word itself. 

I've been using the term oldfag and newfag for longer than you've had a computer. Not one time had anyone in 15 years thought I was trying to skirt around a harassment or homophobic rule. If you want to say your banning "compound words" to avoid confusion is one thing, but if you think for a second I've ever said that to "avoid the homophobic slur/harassment rule" you're so wrong its unreal. This level of deductive reasoning is why "up to admin discretion" is such an impossible thing to implement.

 

 

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Edited by kabLe
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18 minutes ago, kabLe said:

I've been using the term oldfag and newfag for longer than you've had a computer. Not one time had anyone in 15 years thought I was trying to skirt around a harassment or homophobic rule. If you want to say your banning "compound words" to avoid confusion is one thing, but if you think for a second I've ever said that to "avoid the homophobic slur/harassment rule" you're so wrong its unreal. This level of deductive reasoning is why "up to admin discretion" is such an impossible thing to implement.

Getting loopy in your old age, eh?

 

Seems like you missed the point of the thread. The point is that we are adding the f-slur and its slight variants to the banned words list, therefore any form of usage of them is inherently banned. This isn't an admin discretion thing, it's a simple rule thing. I understand those words are part of the older culture around here, but it now technically falls against the rules because it includes a banned word. Though if I called someone an "oldfag" it's not an egregious act, it still technically breaks our rules now. I was just saying it was a way to technically use the word by just tacking on "fag" to an ordinary word. 

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4 minutes ago, Phoenix_ said:

Getting loopy in your old age, eh?

 

Seems like you missed the point of the thread. The point is that we are adding the f-slur and its slight variants to the banned words list, therefore any form of usage of them is inherently banned. This isn't an admin discretion thing, it's a simple rule thing. I understand those words are part of the older culture around here, but it now technically falls against the rules because it includes a banned word. Though if I called someone an "oldfag" it's not an egregious act, it still technically breaks our rules now. I was just saying it was a way to technically use the word by just tacking on "fag" to an ordinary word. 

If it's not an egregious act then why would you say its akin to saying faggot anyway? Let me make sure I have your words down correctly.

 

Using a compound word where you're clearly just tacking on the f-slur to another word is akin to using the word itself. 

 

I don't see any wiggle room here. According to what you thought, typed, proofread, and posted, oldfag is no different from fag.

 

So are you clearly not conveying your thoughts correctly or clearly misinformed?

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1 hour ago, kabLe said:

If it's not an egregious act then why would you say its akin to saying faggot anyway? Let me make sure I have your words down correctly.

 

Using a compound word where you're clearly just tacking on the f-slur to another word is akin to using the word itself. 

 

I don't see any wiggle room here. According to what you thought, typed, proofread, and posted, oldfag is no different from fag.

 

So are you clearly not conveying your thoughts correctly or clearly misinformed?

Just don't say it lol 

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Just now, kabLe said:

Not very convincing dawg

 

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I'm going to assume you just tried to correlate the topic at hand (usage of the f-slur) to my wonderful gaypeen badge. If so, are you ok? 

 

I also didn't know I had to be convincing to tell you to stop using a slur that is very clearly now against our rules. Sooooo... just don't say it lol

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On 9/24/2021 at 6:43 PM, Greggy G said:

I'm going to assume you just tried to correlate the topic at hand (usage of the f-slur) to my wonderful gaypeen badge. If so, are you ok? 

If banning the word was for the reason that it was offensive to gay people then why joke about people being gay(“gaypeen”)

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6 minutes ago, Aster said:

If banning the word was for the reason that it was offensive to gay people then why joke about people being gay(“gaypeen”)

Greggy is a homosexual so its not a joke.

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48 minutes ago, Aster said:

If banning the word was for the reason that it was offensive to gay people then why joke about people being gay(“gaypeen”)

41 minutes ago, BoM said:

Greggy is a homosexual so its not a joke.

 

    

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