Adjusting to Changing Times

[Starlegendgod]

5 minutes ago, Phoenix_ said:

As social change has progressed rapidly within the last few years, the f-slur has fallen into the list of big-red flag words that could really tear down someone's career or business if it was discovered that they used it, especially more recently. The f-slur, alongside with the already banned words have socially become more or less fully unacceptable to use causally, especially in terms of trying to find partnerships. Us banning this word not only allows us to be more welcoming to those who may be offended by this word, but also opens up the door for more marketing opportunities down the line such as Discord (pls) and potentially other communities. 

 

At least in my opinion, retard has not really fallen into the realm of big no-no words (yet) as many people still say it casually and without much repercussion. A lot of people I know and a lot of instances I have seen people still using "retard" and "retarded" in common conversation without much issue or problem from other people. If the day comes where this word becomes a big no-no then it is what it is, but I don't see that day coming soon.

 

I know banning x word and not y word can create confusion, but hopefully my take can provide more insight. 

Thank you

[Starlegendgod]

45 minutes ago, 20 scrolls said:

A proper reason for what? I don't have to give you shit. Retard is not deemed as bad as words like the one we just banned, and if you wanna ban retard, you might as well ban any word that could potentially offend someone. 

Look i think we got on the wrong foot here. I wanted insight to what you meant so I understand and improve on my suggestions in the future. I understand "proper" can come off of being entitled, pissy, or disregarding your preivous statement and i apologize for the usage of language(especially to a higher-up with more time and recognition here than me). I want help the community out the best of my abilities without giving shitty regurgitated suggestions.  

 

Im not trying to put you under the bus or play "oh poor me" type bullshit but both understand our both perspectives to come up with better ideas as the thread suggest. 

[sWz]

I'm not a huge fan of banning words all together, but with slurs I think they're a valid exception.

 

That being said, cherry picking specific slurs is where I take issue. Either all of them should be okay (in context, not to harass another player), or none of them should be okay. If hard R n word is banned, then why not chink, gook, dyke, beaner, towelhead, cracker, gypsy, zipperhead, etc?

 

This brings me back to this video, where I think iDubbbz perfectly breaks down how ridiculous it is to hold some slurs at higher levels of power than others, despite them all sharing similar histories of being used to put a group of people down.

 

 

Maybe it's hypocritical for someone like me to hold a stance like this, but I'm really not sure if banning specific words is the ideal approach. It's already been brought up by multiple people in this thread, but "retard" has really started to skate on thin ice recently and some put it on the same pedestal as the words mentioned above, and I don't know if that's fair.

[kabLe]

5 hours ago, delirium said:

Let the "I thought we were better friends than that" games begin. Can't wait to see who snitches on who when they get upset.

people bouta find out they not as good of friends as they thought XD

[Cept For Her]

18 hours ago, Caution said:

Hello everyone,

 

As we all know, society becomes more / less tolerant on certain things as times change. In this particular instance, I'm talking about homophobic slurs...e.g. 'faggot', 'fag', etc. I think we've all been seeing this coming for a long time, but we are officially banning use of the word 'faggot' (along with any variation of this) on every SG platform. This is a specific ban on that word, and nothing more. If caught using it, it will be treated like any other word on the banned list, however we are obviously going to be a bit understanding for a period of time while everyone integrates with the new rule.

I don't think banning a specific word is the right way to go about this. There are other words that are viewed to be the same level of disrespect with very similar meaning, eg. "dyke, homo, etc"(a quick google search can find you these). You may be banning these words through your "(along with any variation of this)", however that is not explicitly stated and therefore there is argument against their being banned words. My problem here is not that offensive words are being banned, but the fact that a specific word is being cherry picked to be banned because it is used more commonly than other words. If you're taking a stance against this type of language you should be banning every word that has similar meaning. 

 

The biggest problem I have with the ban on this word is that SG allows the use of racial slurs on its platforms(and btw, I see no rule against using these slurs under the forum rules). Unless it got changed recently without me knowing, SG has been taking of the stance of allowing potentially offensive words to be used, but judging punishment based upon the context of the conversation in which it is being used. Friendly banter is very different than targeted harassment, as I expect everyone to know by now. These types of words should fall under the same ruling as racial slurs do, in that we can ban them in text form on the forums and discord and wherever, but allow the use in voice conversation and the servers, with punishment relying on the context of the conversation.

 

One last thing with this paragraph, you mention this word will be treated like any other word on the banned list. I can not find the banned list anywhere, if someone would kindly direct me to where that is, that would be helpful. To my knowledge it was actually removed a year ago via the post quoted below.

  

On 9/22/2020 at 11:46 AM, Caution said:

We have also done away with the 'Bannable Words' list. We all know what should and should not be on that list, so there isn't a need for us to publicly display that. 

However, you state that banned words list is still active, and with this word being hard banned on all platforms, its probably best to have a public display of banned words to this degree.

 

  

 

18 hours ago, Caution said:

Additionally, to clarify a policy where we may have allowed certain words in private channels (whether locked or unlocked), on the servers, etc...I am going to say this to clarify our stance: Banned words are banned throughout all of SG, whether in a private channel, public channel, locked, unlocked, in the CSGO servers, etc. Unless otherwise specifically mentioned after this thread, there is no exception or clause to that. A banned word is banned everywhere on SG.

Just want to actually thank you and the board for finally clarifying this on a public level. I have explained it in the past to people who have argued "If the channel is locked, I can say whatever I want and its not against the rules". Its good to have a place I can point them to for the official stance on that ruling.

[BoM]

51 minutes ago, Cept For Her said:

I don't think banning a specific word is the right way to go about this. There are other words that are viewed to be the same level of disrespect with very similar meaning, eg. "dyke, homo, etc"(a quick google search can find you these). You may be banning these words through your "(along with any variation of this)", however that is not explicitly stated and therefore there is argument against their being banned words. My problem here is not that offensive words are being banned, but the fact that a specific word is being cherry picked to be banned because it is used more commonly than other words. If you're taking a stance against this type of language you should be banning every word that has similar meaning. 

We're not looking to be the word police, but more just keep up with not allowing completely unacceptable terms while also being lenient enough to what is generally accepted on the internet. This is not some safe haven for everyone to feel warm and fuzzy with no harmful or hateful words ever, but we are at least striving for some decency. I'll clarify below why this matters.

Quote

 

The biggest problem I have with the ban on this word is that SG allows the use of racial slurs on its platforms(and btw, I see no rule against using these slurs under the forum rules). Unless it got changed recently without me knowing, SG has been taking of the stance of allowing potentially offensive words to be used, but judging punishment based upon the context of the conversation in which it is being used. Friendly banter is very different than targeted harassment, as I expect everyone to know by now. These types of words should fall under the same ruling as racial slurs do, in that we can ban them in text form on the forums and discord and wherever, but allow the use in voice conversation and the servers, with punishment relying on the context of the conversation.

No, we do not allow racial slurs. We briefly allowed for the use of the word 'nigga'...call it a social experiment, call it influence from a particular man in red...whatever. That era is now over. As for any other racial slur, 100% of them are used, in essence, a derogatory fashion falling under disrespect, harassment, racism, etc. Now we could come out and write a rule that says 'no racial slurs' if that would satisfy you and others who are trying to break this down a bit too much, but we have always and will always punish for the use of racial slurs.

 

To the point above, we have a list (which I will post below) of words that are quite simply hard banned racial slurs, i.e. if these words are uttered out of your mouth you are likely going to get punished very quickly, particularly with repeated use post warning. Now of course, comes the question of why isn't every known racial slur ever in all of mankind's history in the list. Fuck off. Okay so obviously listing every word is just nonsense (90-95% of listed slurs are rarely if ever used), so our approach is to more address the *most common use words* as to help really emphasize the environment we are trying to create without getting ridiculous as well as staying up with the times. There are words like 'chink' that you don't really hear much at all on the internet anymore, but it was more prevalent maybe 10 years ago, it is on the list. There are words like 'Barbarian' which is a term(slur) from Greece to describe Non-greek people, which would never make it on the list or really be applied in a harassment/discrimination type setting. Then we get down to a word like @daftybrought up, 'zipperhead', which some kid could say in a way that they are unaware of it being a slur, but also could be put under harassment or could even make it onto our list down the line if it became prevalent.

Hopefully with the examples above, you and others can see how applying a healthy combination of a 'do not use these words ever' list along with addressing other varying harassment and disrespect cases gives us the most amount of free movement within our own rules to make the best decisions as these things come up. Adding 'faggot' to the list is our way of addressing a word that is becoming problematic in societal use and therefore was deemed as something we didn't think any of our player base really wanted to be hearing or seeing.

Quote

 

One last thing with this paragraph, you mention this word will be treated like any other word on the banned list. I can not find the banned list anywhere, if someone would kindly direct me to where that is, that would be helpful. To my knowledge it was actually removed a year ago via the post quoted below.

  

However, you state that banned words list is still active, and with this word being hard banned on all platforms, its probably best to have a public display of banned words to this degree.

(Nigga)

(Faggot, Fag, Faggy, etc.)

This list has changed several times over there years, for example there used to be a time nigga was on there (previously) and there was a time when the term 'Spear Chucker' wasn't a problem. This list can be added onto as necessary and has always been listed at least at an admin level, but is currently listed here:

If for some crazy reason the usage of slurs gets out of hand (which is highly unlikely) then we can look to add on more words or make a rule that says 'no racial slurs', but again...the waters get dicey when you make blanket statements like that, and overall it doesn't seem like it would come down to that. Most of the arguments in thread are really based in semantics and fail to account for the obvious human factor of rule enforcement and punishment.

 

Quote

  Just want to actually thank you and the board for finally clarifying this on a public level. I have explained it in the past to people who have argued "If the channel is locked, I can say whatever I want and its not against the rules". Its good to have a place I can point them to for the official stance on that ruling.

To clarify our previous stance was in fact what people had argued with you, however we're tired of the debates and the squabbling over it so we've decided to move to more of a: you dig your own grave if you decide to do it and get caught / reported.

[Cept For Her]

16 minutes ago, BoM said:

No, we do not allow racial slurs. We briefly allowed for the use of the word 'nigga'...call it a social experiment, call it influence from a particular man in red...whatever. That era is now over. As for any other racial slur, 100% of them are used, in essence, a derogatory fashion falling under disrespect, harassment, racism, etc. Now we could come out and write a rule that says 'no racial slurs' if that would satisfy you and others who are trying to break this down a bit too much, but we have always and will always punish for the use of racial slurs.

When tf did yall retract the ruling for racial slurs on the servers? I don't remember a single post about that, and the pinned post in announcements states that "light jokes are ok, but use of the hard R is strictly prohibited". If this isn't the case then yall gotta update your pinned posts so there isn't confusion about what the current rules are. I don't actually care what the rule is behind this, but it seems to have changed with little or no communication to the community, unless i missed a major announcement thread.

 

 

26 minutes ago, BoM said:

(Nigga)

(Faggot, Fag, Faggy, etc.)

This list has changed several times over there years, for example there used to be a time nigga was on there (previously) and there was a time when the term 'Spear Chucker' wasn't a problem. This list can be added onto as necessary and has always been listed at least at an admin level, but is currently listed here:

I appreciate you telling me this is where the banned words list is, but it simply isn't. If you read the actual post this list is from you find:

  

On 9/22/2020 at 11:46 AM, Caution said:

This is going to be two-part, covering ban policy in general & ban lengths. As it stands now, here are the basic admin rules regarding ban lengths and whatnot:

containing the list you posted above, followed by:

  

On 9/22/2020 at 11:46 AM, Caution said:

Moving forward, this is what it shall be:

Which shows no mention of a "Bannable Words" list, as it was mentioned earlier in the post that it was going to removed since "We all know what should and should not be on that list". There is no current public display of a Bannable Words list, and if you're following one then there should be public mention of it, and it should be consistently updated with new words you decide to add to it, so people who don't view those words as offensive, or only use them in a friendly, joking manner, know that they shouldn't be used at this community.

 

The best place to put it would probably be under the Guides section alongside the Forum/Discord rules, and while you're at it, you should add a ban policy section as well, because there's no reason for the ban times to be private information. It would allow users unfamiliar with this community to know if they were punished for longer than they should have been.

 

  

38 minutes ago, BoM said:

To clarify our previous stance was in fact what people had argued with you, however we're tired of the debates and the squabbling over it so we've decided to move to more of a: you dig your own grave if you decide to do it and get caught / reported.

Again, if you look in the pinned post of Ban Policy & Racism: 

  

On 9/22/2020 at 11:46 AM, Caution said:

However, if you're in a private channel among friends and no one reports anything, did it actually happen? I'm going to leave it at that. 

Your stance was exactly as it is now, it was never allowed to break the rules in private channels, it was just said that if you do do it, you better hope nobody in the channel reports you.

[BoM]

2 minutes ago, Cept For Her said:

When tf did yall retract the ruling for racial slurs on the servers? I don't remember a single post about that, and the pinned post in announcements states that "light jokes are ok, but use of the hard R is strictly prohibited". If this isn't the case then yall gotta update your pinned posts so there isn't confusion about what the current rules are. I don't actually care what the rule is behind this, but it seems to have changed with little or no communication to the community, unless i missed a major announcement thread.

This was mostly in regards to 'nigga', which as of this thread has been retracted. Will continue to clarify and update things where able, but again...outside of 'nigga' racial slurs *have never been allowed*.

 

2 minutes ago, Cept For Her said:

 

 

I appreciate you telling me this is where the banned words list is, but it simply isn't. If you read the actual post this list is from you find:

  

containing the list you posted above, followed by:

  

Which shows no mention of a "Bannable Words" list, as it was mentioned earlier in the post that it was going to removed since "We all know what should and should not be on that list". There is no current public display of a Bannable Words list, and if you're following one then there should be public mention of it, and it should be consistently updated with new words you decide to add to it, so people who don't view those words as offensive, or only use them in a friendly, joking manner, know that they shouldn't be used at this community.

 

The best place to put it would probably be under the Guides section alongside the Forum/Discord rules, and while you're at it, you should add a ban policy section as well, because there's no reason for the ban times to be private information. It would allow users unfamiliar with this community to know if they were punished for longer than they should have been.

List no list, idk what to tell you Caution was drunk that day or something. If people need a list instead of being told 'don't be fucking stupid and use clearly obvious slurs' then we will make a big glorious list. Honestly pointless convo man I'm sorry. Like just don't use slurs @everyone.

 

2 minutes ago, Cept For Her said:

 Your stance was exactly as it is now, it was never allowed to break the rules in private channels, it was just said that if you do do it, you better hope nobody in the channel reports you.

Ehh its a subtle difference but a lot of people are more likely to continue doing things when we are clearly lax and lenient on it (basically turned a blind eye to it), however now we're just flat out saying we don't allow it or want to hear about it ever or people will be getting quickly punished..demoted..etc.

[delirium]

Whether or not you agree with the decision the fact remains that this is a step towards being a more inclusive and mainstream community. How is marketing supposed to do their job if people who may be interested in running sponsored events or something come on the servers and hear a bunch of socially unacceptable language? In terms of pushing the community itself forward this is one of many hard decisions that has to be made if this place wants any actual success in the current social climate.

[Aster]

cant you say that word in a non offensive way anyways like old*** or new***