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kabLe

New Scrim Plugin Question Mark

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Posted (edited)

Hi Team,

 

There could be the potential of us getting a scrim plugin made from scratch. I don't want to make any promises as it's too early to say if we will fully commit to this or not. That being said, I did some brainstorming to think of necessary features that need to be included to make it even worth developing and replacing the current plugin we have. 

 

Below is what I have so far:

 

Quote

Priority 1 Features:


1.    records stats
⦁    overall and per game
⦁    rws
⦁    adr
⦁    kills
⦁    deaths
⦁    kills with each gun
⦁    accuracy with each gun


2. web page to easily display stats
⦁    individual player stats
⦁    game stats
⦁    show ongoing or past games for a home page?

3. basic scrim features
⦁    ability to setup parameters of a game by anyone (like .setup in current plugin)
⦁    captains pick setup
⦁    autobalance setup (maybe a config that allows me to decide which metric between adr/rws should be used as a factor)
⦁    ability to record demos and have them auto posted to the webstats page after a game
⦁    .ready system
⦁    map veto
          i.    regular map veto system for captains pick setup where the 2 chosen captains veto maps back and forth like normal
          ii.    autobalance map veto system (2 players with the highest metric being used as a factor for autobalancing on each team becomes captain and then vetos maps. Or everyone votes for the map they want, or ability to switch between each)
 



Priority 2 (wish list):
1. Queue System
⦁    if a player drops out during a live game, if someone is in spectate they can type a command that puts them in a queue. If they are next in queue, after x amount of time they will be auto swapped into the game from spectate to take the players place who has left

 

 

 

 

If you have a few minutes, please leave your thoughts, whether it's wish list type of stuff or something you think should be an absolute priority. 

Edited by kabLe
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I think the idea of recording stats is great and has been something a lot of players have wanted for a while. While we do have RWS it doesn't really bring a statistic like total kills / kda, I think improved stats would be a huge bonus for the server. As for a website what would the priorities be for it that our current stats page doesn't already have? (other then the game cache which would make things a lot easier for the manager speaking from experience)

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, oSen said:

I think the idea of recording stats is great and has been something a lot of players have wanted for a while. While we do have RWS it doesn't really bring a statistic like total kills / kda, I think improved stats would be a huge bonus for the server. As for a website what would the priorities be for it that our current stats page doesn't already have? (other then the game cache which would make things a lot easier for the manager speaking from experience)

Ideally, I would like it to have like the faceit/esea aesthetic. It doesn't need to go super in depth but it'd be nice to see your kills with each gun, your accuracy, adr/rws. Shows the current progress of an on going game as well as past games, easy ability to pull demos for anyone.

 

I also don't view GameTracker as a legitimate stats system. This is also in an extremely infant state. If you have any idea for the webpage portion definitely slap them down here.

Edited by kabLe

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12 minutes ago, kabLe said:

I also don't view GameTracker as a legitimate stats system. This is also in an extremely infant state. If you have any idea for the webpage portion definitely slap them down here.

definitely demos

might be interesting to see recent matches / the scores (could be on demo and have the titles be based off of the scores of the game i.e [map][score][time/date][download] or something along those lines)

if we are going through with a website definitely basic stats like kda adr like you mentioned

I don't know where tournaments are going in scrim but if it comes back could move SGSL stuff from forums to there like matches and stuff

 

These are just the things off the top of my head rn I can edit later with some more possibilities if you'd like, after putting more thought I think a website for the server (as long as its not the biggest pain) would be beneficial to both regs and staff

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2 minutes ago, oSen said:

definitely demos

might be interesting to see recent matches / the scores (could be on demo and have the titles be based off of the scores of the game i.e [map][score][time/date][download] or something along those lines)

if we are going through with a website definitely basic stats like kda adr like you mentioned

I don't know where tournaments are going in scrim but if it comes back could move SGSL stuff from forums to there like matches and stuff

 

These are just the things off the top of my head rn I can edit later with some more possibilities if you'd like, after putting more thought I think a website for the server (as long as its not the biggest pain) would be beneficial to both regs and staff

It would probably just be a sub domain we have under steam-gamers.net that is linked somewhere for easy access. But if it's possible(which i know it is its just a matter of implementing it) you could definitely get some tiles in there that shows on going matches as well as past matches and shows stats for that specific game while also being able to go search an individual member and display their overall stats. Obviously we don't have ESL backing us so there is a limit to what we can implement stats wise but I think getting the basics like KDA, ADR, RWS, etc is a great first step which can always be built upon by other motivated individuals. 

 

Definitely update me here whenever you have some inspiration. Even if it's not fully thought out you never know who might take your infant concept and be able to push it further through discussion.

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Certain forms of auto-moderation (cooldowns, team damage) may be worth looking into, unless you specifically want to stay away from them. 

 

Also might be worth allowing the creation of squads/teams for the purpose of stats. These wouldn't allow you to override captains/team balancing but would allow you guys to track your stats together as individuals or on the occasion another group of players wants to play against you.

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1 hour ago, Gentoo said:

Certain forms of auto-moderation (cooldowns, team damage) may be worth looking into, unless you specifically want to stay away from them. 

 

Also might be worth allowing the creation of squads/teams for the purpose of stats. These wouldn't allow you to override captains/team balancing but would allow you guys to track your stats together as individuals or on the occasion another group of players wants to play against you.

1. For the forms of auto moderation, I see where you're going with it. My issue is something like team damage, if someone just sits in my molly is there a way for us to not have that count towards my team damage kicking me or something? How do we address someone trying to actually troll the team damage mechanic vs someone actually accidentally doing team damage? Should it reach a specific threshhold of damage? I could see something like if you do 400 damage worth of team damage you get kicked, imo, if your doing that much team damage your either trolling someone, bad at the game, or having a really unlucky game. 9/10 times I'd say you should only reach that threshold if your trolling someone. I'd be interested to see where else you can go with this and what others think. I'll admit, I didn't think too much about auto moderation but could be a nice wishlist thing if/when we have version 1 come out.

 

As far as the squad thing, I think that's a really cool idea. Personally, I don't think it would need to be something added to the plugin. I wonder if the webpage itself would be able to allow people to create squads and then maybe like average their stats together and we could run events that who's ever squad has the best average X stat overall gets a prize or something. 

 

Any thoughts from anyone on that?

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6 minutes ago, kabLe said:

9/10 times I'd say you should only reach that threshold if your trolling someone.

I haven't been a fan of auto moderation for a while, an example of it not really working how its meant to is on TTT when ZZL literally got banned by auto moderation and while its a different situation its the same idea. Most times players will be getting punished for something that's not their fault, and considering team damage etc isn't as much of a problem on scrim as throwing / trolling which is what would lead to false bans, I  don't think its necessary.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, oSen said:

I haven't been a fan of auto moderation for a while, an example of it not really working how its meant to is on TTT when ZZL literally got banned by auto moderation and while its a different situation its the same idea. Most times players will be getting punished for something that's not their fault, and considering team damage etc isn't as much of a problem on scrim as throwing / trolling which is what would lead to false bans, I  don't think its necessary.

Agree. I think auto moderation is inherently flawed. I haven’t been active on any of the servers in a while, but I’m assuming scrim is the same as it has always been; there’s generally an admin or two in every game. For that reason I don’t believe auto moderation should be added. A human will always perform multitudes better than a program when it comes to applying context to situations.

 

Throwing and trolling oftentimes leads to team damage but it’s not necessarily required. Im certain that a human would be better at discerning either of those actions than anything that can be written in sourcepawn.

Edited by delirium

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The benefit to having manual moderation already means that auto-moderation is a lot more feasible than in matchmaking. Our policy for TTT was that auto-moderation would not be reverted, but issues with players abusing it could be reported. While you could limit team damage to strictly gunfire, you could just as easily not throw molotovs for the rest of the game and report the offending troll.

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1 minute ago, delirium said:

Im certain that a human would be better at discerning either of those actions better than anything that can be written in sourcepawn.

^^

I'd rather have an admin deal with something with accuracy then have chances of players getting banned on accident. Throwing can easily be corrected by an admin in the game and admins have the ability to decide whether x situation is intentional or not unlike auto mods.

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5 minutes ago, Gentoo said:

you could just as easily not throw molotovs for the rest of the game and report the offending troll.

This is what strike requests are for. As I'm sure you know admins can't always get on and it shouldn't affect your ability to enjoy / play the game

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29 minutes ago, oSen said:

I haven't been a fan of auto moderation for a while, an example of it not really working how its meant to is on TTT when ZZL literally got banned by auto moderation and while its a different situation its the same idea. Most times players will be getting punished for something that's not their fault, and considering team damage etc isn't as much of a problem on scrim as throwing / trolling which is what would lead to false bans, I  don't think its necessary.

I'm going to state the obvious and say this isn't remotely close to a useful comparison and double down by reminding you that the official consensus was that auto-moderation worked as intended in this case.

 

Yes auto-moderation hasn't been necessary previously for two reasons:

 

1) There is a password on the server limiting it primarily to active community members that understand the consequences of getting banned.

2) There is usually an admin on and in the game

 

I can't 100% say this is the case, but this is a great opportunity for anyone to chime in. If someone is actually going to put this much effort into making an advanced scrim plugin from scratch, it's probably in hopes of reviving the server and using it as an inlet to the community rather than just revamping the underused community hangout spot. If this is the case, it's much more likely that the lock might pop off and admins won't be available for every game.

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29 minutes ago, oSen said:

This is what strike requests are for. As I'm sure you know admins can't always get on and it shouldn't affect your ability to enjoy / play the game

I'm glad you brought this up, anyone have any ideas on maybe auto-moderation as far as a strike system goes?

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1 hour ago, Gentoo said:

If this is the case, it's much more likely that the lock might pop off and admins won't be available for every game.

I still think even if this is the case, considering the only way to  damage your teammates is by throwing a molotov, can't you at least somewhat see how it's more likely to be abused rather then be used effectively?

 

1 hour ago, kabLe said:

I'm glad you brought this up, anyone have any ideas on maybe auto-moderation as far as a strike system goes?

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?

 

I'll provide a more structured response tomorrow when the website isn't shaking

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Update:

 

!ready system - done

captains/map veto - done

automatic demo recording on live - done

 

In Progress:

pause option

making sure spectators can't ready up

command aliase

 

Queued Up:

Tracking stats

web panel

bug fixes

 

courtesy of @R3TROATTACK

Edited by kabLe
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