New Rule Changes

[Gentoo]

Feel free to post all of your feedback for the new rule changes here.

 

Starting from the top I guess.

 

 

• Can I kill Traitors off association?
  
• 
   
  No, you may not kill someone off of association with another Traitor.
   
   
  

I understand that this has been a commonly misinterpreted term, but I feel that a better solution would be to more clearly define this and the specific instances in which it can be used. You can now no longer kill someone for not shooting at a T, not being shot at by a T, and various other clearly logical reasons to kill someone. The gamemode should not be pandering to brainlets and nerfing quick-thinking and experienced players because it's too difficult to explain what association means to newfags.

 

 

• Can I kill somebody for having an AWP or Health Shot?
  
• Yes, you can KOS someone for having an AWP or Health shot.
   
   
  

This one is a very sensible change; closing loopholes is something I'm all for. Make sure to add the MP5.

 

• Are you allowed to kill Detectives that are RDMing?
  
• 
   
  If a detective is purposefully trying to kill you, you are allowed to kill them.
   
   
  

 

All for this as well. Not only is it less wordy, but more appropriate for the actual speed of the server. Implying that someone would've been able to ask why they are being killed and awaiting a response before dying is ridiculous.

 

You may kill someone for not responding to a live check after the 2:00 minute mark.

I'll want to see how this plays out before giving a concrete opinion on it. In the meantime, could you guys define what is considered a live check? I figure your best bet would be requiring it to be given over mic and being phrased specifically as "Live Check" to avoid confusion and abuse.

 

 

• Can Detectives give orders?
  
• 
   
  Detectives are allowed to give orders that help them rapidly determine if someone is a Traitor. If you do not follow their order after 3 warnings, they may kill you.
   
   
   
  
• Can I kill someone for refusing to be tased?
  
• 
   
  If you give them 3 warnings to let you tase them and they don't let you, you may kill them.
   
   
  

I mean come on now. This rule is not only very abuseable, but also quite vague. Do orders have to be given over mic? What counts as an order that will rapidly help them determine if someone is traitor? Could I ask everyone to line up at spawn to check for KOS items and get tased?

 

I don't think its generally a good idea to encourage people to abuse rules, but I'm certainly not against any regs showing just how negative of an impact this change specifically can have on the server. I'm not terribly concerned with the server turning into hell overnight, but I don't feel that these changes are conducive to the meta we have long been working for and appreciating. If I was a bit more dim, I'd call this directly pandering to the children that play JB.

 

I understand that Detectives have historically been underpowered on our server, but I strongly feel that this is not the proper way to go about buffing them.

 

Sort of a minor thing, but TTT has been relatively easy to play with voice_enable 0 or music playing previously. I don't see this being the case if these changes are going to be sticking around.

 

Overall, I think this should've been brought up for discussion before being implemented. I understand that it's very cool for the team to surprise the community with cool items and updates, but this is not one of those pleasant surprises. I can understand where you guys are coming from on paper, but I just don't see some of these changes having a positive impact on the server as it stands.

[Bacon]

My guy already gave me the order to runboost off the map warning 1

 

also got the order kill so and so warning 1

[Chad]

Hello fellow SG gamers and staff,

 

I am here to discuss the new changes that came to TTT as shown in this link: https://www.steam-gamers.net/forum/showthread.php?t=63540&page=9&p=1014732#post1014732. I would like to discuss the new rules that need to be reverted back to the old ones.

 

 

Killing off of association will not be allowed. This has been a cause of lots of confusion in the past, so we're removing the ability to do so now. The FAQ now shows:

 

Can I kill Traitors off association?

No, you may not kill someone off of association with another Traitor.

 

I honestly confused on how this has caused confusion in the past. Example: If you happen to walk into a hallway, and see 2 Traitors. One of them kills an Innocent, and they both run away. Are you saying the one dude who killed him is the ONLY one KOS'able? It's so obvious that they are BOTH traitors... If the traitor doesn't kill the other dude, I think we know why...

 

Also, wouldn't this just get people killed easier? If you can't call out who the other T is ,MOST likely another person will get killed because they won't know that the person YOU just saw run away from the Traitor is actually a Traitor... This will make TTT not as enjoyable for the non-traitors.

 

• General Server Rules:
  

You may kill someone for not responding to a live check after the 2:00 minute mark.

 

Traitors are meant to be stealth right? Why is forcing them to potentially speak out to everyone needed? How will that help the traitors win? I understand they don't HAVE to do it (which is probably it's a general rule? ), but the only reason why I see it being useful is to try and speed up games. You also gotta find a way to broadcast these new rules, as there are lots of new players/old players who join and have no clue what they are doing.

 

• Can Detectives give orders?
  
• Detectives are allowed to give orders that help them rapidly determine if someone is a Traitor. If you do not follow their order after 3 warnings, they may kill you.
  

 

My opinion on this: I actually find this interesting. 3 warnings is fair, and can make Detectives a little more useful then just tasers/health stations.

Q: Is there a time amount we'd have to wait after each warning? If so, can you specify?

[DancingMoonLight]

I hopped on TTT for a bit today and people were bombarding with the most passive aggressive shit that they won't repeat here to online faces; but among them they did have a couple valid reasons, some I agree with.

 

Making killing off association rdm is quite frankly asinine, if you don't want to be associated with the Ts, don't be near them; its quite simple. stick with the group, tag the wall for 99 when there is a firefight, and don't bring attention to yourself or just be by yourself. If you hang with your t buddies and get killed when a gunfight erupts even though you didn't shoot, quite frankly that isn't RDM, its a T round wasted by being too passive.

 

My second complaint is the D orders, a couple loopholes were closed and thats fantastic, but you guys just arguably opened an even larger one; this will be abused and Ive already seen it happening. some lighthearted among friends, and some erupting in arguments; it is way too vague, and I believe it should be removed entirely, but the refusing to be tased is a great step forward.

 

As for the livecheck one, I haven't been nearly active enough to form an opinion

[jim]

New Detective order rule is too broad/general. Unsure what orders constitute rapidly determining who is a T and what orders do not do so. Feel like giving detectives the ability to give orders is basically a CT on JB without the warning shots.

 

This is also now confusing for admins on how to handle detectives killing innocents because the innocents refused to follow potentially "dumb" orders that contribute nothing to the core gameplay of TTT.

 

In addition:

 

How many players can a CT force a rule upon?

Detective on detective rules?

Potential targeting issues (no longer potential, I just got targeted)

[Kataoka]

New Detective order rule is too broad/general. Unsure what orders constitute rapidly determining who is a T and what orders do not do so. Feel like giving detectives the ability to give orders is basically a CT on JB without the warning shots.

 

This is also now confusing for admins on how to handle detectives killing innocents because the innocents refused to follow potentially "dumb" orders that contribute nothing to the core gameplay of TTT.

 

To add to this I just watched Jim get killed by krumzie because jim didn't follow Krumzie's orders when they are both detective, so its also too broad to the fact who you can give the orders to

[Trazz]

Majority I am fine with. Just a few things though.

 

As most have stated the type of orders and time between orders/warnings need to be clarified. Although it may seem logical not to give an order like “jump off the map” or any others of that sort, but there will be toxic players who abuse this. Atm it should be removed then reinstated with a better understanding for better results in players reactions towards this as some may have negative thoughts because of abusive orders.

 

Order Limitations:

-Cannot force players to kill/damage themselves

-Cannot force players to RDM another player (includes free damage)

-Do not give unreasonable orders such as opening T Menu and telling them to buy you a weapon (sounds stupid but technically if the player doesn’t provide with what they want after the warnings the detective can kill them). Holy shit this is sounding like JB

 

Another change that slightly bugs me is the new T Item KOS Rule. From what I’ve seen there has not been a problem with the previous of “players must claim the t weapon (awps, mp5sd, and/or healthshot) or they can be KOSed. I don’t believe players should be punished for killing a T who’s health shot dropped onto them or if they found an AWP/MP5SD then picked it up to see who it belonged to and KOS the owner.

[Poke]

To follow off what @jim said.

Detectives should not be able to give KOS orders. Or something that can or make other people die.

Also detectives shouldn’t be able to give orders to other detectives. I, personally think that they shouldn’t be able to give orders at all. Possibly the only thing they can do is allow them to make others freeze.

[roux]

To add to this I just watched Jim get killed by krumzie because jim didn't follow Krumzie's orders when they are both detective, so its also too broad to the fact who you can give the orders to

 

Order Limitations:

-Cannot force players to kill/damage themselves

-Cannot force players to RDM another player (includes free damage)

-Do not give unreasonable orders such as opening T Menu and telling them to buy you a weapon (sounds stupid but technically if the player doesn’t provide with what they want after the warnings the detective can kill them). Holy shit this is sounding like JB

 

THE RULE

 

Detectives are allowed to give orders that help them rapidly determine if someone is a Traitor. If you do not follow their order after 3 warnings, they may kill you.

 

I'm all for discussion and criticism but what the fuck are you guys doing? Orders have to be related to spotting Traitors, being a detective does not make you a jailbreak warden.

 

IN ITSELF, ORDERS DO NOT ALLOW YOU TO ORDER INNOCENTS TO SLAUGHTER ONE ANOTHER, TO COMMIT SUICIDE, DO NOT APPLY TO DETECTIVES.

 

I believe in writing rules down and clarifying them to the fullest, but this shit is bad faith criticism and fallacious reasoning directed at the credibility of the change. This truly sounds stupid and I've lost the faith I had in TTT players. We do not (and should never) need a 20 000 characters long appendix with every loophole possible; the rule as it is right now is fairly concise and, as far as I can see right now, cover every "loophole" you guys are pointing out. Want to criticize a change? Go right ahead: build strong arguments, point out obvious holes in the wording of a rule, point out discrepancies, practical effects and unwanted side-effects. Elementary level syllogisms and sophisms don't create change.

 

Jesus Christ I can't, truly.

[Bad Karma]

Can a Detective force two people to fight each other at the end?

If neither of them fight and 1 is a T and 1 is an INNO and you kill both wouldn't that be technically rdm?