ZM's Philosophy Thread

[Italian Jew]

It is either since it cannot make the object (since making something heavier than the being could lift would be something you would have to be able to make to be omnipotent), it would not be able to lift something that is not there. If it could make the object, then it is most likely that it could be lifted. Now all we need to do is ask, if there is an omnipotent being, if they can make and lift the damn stone.

 

Could always use the Chuck Norris example...many regard him as an omnipotent being, so we could use him as a reference point. :001_tt2:

 

 

Any more unanswerable questions like what is the meaning of life?

 

What does Henda's banhammer look like?

 

etc...

[Slavic]

Pardon me, but it seems like you two are saying god is a physical being separate from its environment. I do hope I'm mistaken.

[Italian Jew]

lol, don't worry. We are just philosophizing in the great words of Bill & Ted. Whether it is or isn't is another question.

[Slavic]

1. God is infinite and all encompassing in the greatest sense of the two

2. In order for God to be infinite and all encompassing, this reality must be a singular system

3. A duel system would partition God from the second system making god finite

4. A rock my be infinity large within the system

5. Since the rock exists in the system it is encompassed by God in the greatest of sense

6. A rock will always be able to be "picked" up because the rock, no matter what size, will always be encompassed by God if this is a singular system

7. It is impossible for a rock to be "beyond" the carrying capacity of God because that would put a limit on God, and limits can not existence in an infinity

8. There for, everything is because everything is

[Italian Jew]

If god is infinitely encompassing and the rock is infinitely encompassing....then god is the rock because the rock takes up all the space leaving no extra room for anything. Since god is the rock and it takes up all the space, could you lift it anywhere? There is no room, so where would it go?

 

This...is....deep....

 

[phatman76]

I'm not one of those ponces who dances about Descartes or Plato, but I like the Paradox of the Stone. No-one's ever tried to answer it whom I know.

 

In brief:

1. Either God can create a stone which He cannot lift, or He cannot create a stone which He cannot lift.

2. If God can create a stone which He cannot lift, then He is not omnipotent (since He cannot lift the stone in question).

3. If God cannot create a stone which He cannot lift, then He is not omnipotent (since He cannot create the stone in question).

4. Therefore God is not omnipotent.

 

I'm about to proverbially own the fucking stone.

 

okay, God is no only omnipotent, but the master of all things both within our natural laws and outside of them, outside of the universe. Therefore, he can defy reason. Therefore, he can create a stone so heavy he cannot lift it and then lift it because he makes the laws of nature and makes your foolish philosophy work. You cannot catch God in a logical fallacy if he operates outside of logic...

 

btw weight is relative. Infinitely dense mass would be like, a super neutron star or black hole or something, which could also be obliterated out of existence or created. I believe in the higgs-boson field, the theoretical aether that exists even in vacuum and holds together the universe. However, God can operate and destroy the fabric of this universe, so he can obviously drop an infinitely heavy marble into it and then take it out.

 

FINALLY, the heaviest something can be within natural law is infinite, not "so heavy God can't pick it up," so yes, God can make something infinitely heavy within the confines of natural law and then lift it, but something so heavy he cannot lift it cannot be created within natural law and cannot exist outside of it

[Italian Jew]

if indeed he was there lifting weights alongside Zeus and Chuck Norris...

 

AND THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER!!!!!

 

[PotshotPolka]

Not really a philosophy but Jospeh Heller's Catch 22.

[Slavic]

If God is infinite and all encompassing then it is beyond the limit that is human form, therefore it is ridiculous to postulate whether or not it can lift a rock because the lifting of a rock implies that the object lifting the rock is separate from the rock. If God is separate from the rock then that creates a dualist reality which in its own sense destroys the notion of an infinite all encompassing God.

 

On to more pressing matters.

 

I hold to the belief that all actions are predetermined and that free will is an illusion. I am almost certain that many of you believe in some form of free will, as do most people, and would like to hear your arguments about them. I will begin with some basic tenants.

 

I hold true that God is infinite and all encompassing in the greatest of senses, therefore the reality we inhabit is a singular system, because a dualistic system would destroy what I've just stated. In a singular system everything in the greatest of senses is of one entity, you can call this God, because there is only one identity in a singular system. In such a case, all actions performed are inheritly the same, they are only distinguished as being different when viewed at a lower state of consciousness, the normal human mind.

 

The difference of paths taken of the free willed mind are not truly free. The free willed mind can only assume that its actions are free willed because only "it" is doing it, and "it" controls them separately from other influences that a predetermined system would have. To imply a free willed mind, the mind must be separate from apredetermined system. In other words creating a dualistic system. Instigating that free will exists in any minute form implies a dualistic system which limits God.

[Captain Colon]

I hold to the belief that all actions are predetermined and that free will is an illusion. I am almost certain that many of you believe in some form of free will, as do most people, and would like to hear your arguments about them.

IMO this is the stupidest philosophy topic ever to discuss, but it can present some interesting ideas if you look at it in certain ways...

 

For instance, if we say that we DO have "free will" in the sense that we are consciously influencing our lives, that would imply that we're actually consciously controlling the chemical processes in our body, because everything we do [physically] is the result of a chemical reaction. It's well-known that people like martial artists and many spiritual monks are able to exercise an impressive amount of control over things like their heart rate and blood pressure, but what about manipulating the physical world outside our body? If we can manipulate the physical world that's encompassed by the body, who's to say that the same can't be done for the physical world outside it? I think that "paranormal" phenomena like ESP and psychokinesis are a given, if free will is assumed to exist.