Surf Fixes/Concerns

[Poobah]

I have noticed a few things regarding the surf server that I would like to bring attention to.

 

The first is that the new map surf_summit is supposed to have 3 bonuses, but it has none because they do not have any zones.

 

The second is 5000 max velocity. I do not believe there was a discussion about this or somewhere that I could post my input so this is of course a bit late, however, the server does not appear to have changed to 5000 max velocity despite the change log saying so, but this is a good thing. I think that having the entire server be at 5000 max velocity is not a good decision. There are many maps that should have 5k max velocity and they should be allowed to have it on a case by case basis, but there are a lot of maps, if not most, that should be at 3500 max velocity. The 3.5k cap is sort of the standard when it comes to maps and the times set on maps reflects this. Having a 5k cap for all maps would significantly lower the record times for them which would be inconsistent and unexpected for players that play on multiple servers.

 

This is not about whether or not we should or shouldn't copy other servers, this is about a certain expectation when it comes to surfing. A 5k cap may not seem like a big deal for a player who just does surf every now and then, but for people who have been doing surf for a long time and know the maps and the speeds that you should expect in certain areas it is a massive deal. The caps exist for reasons such as boosts, keeping things competitive, and playing a map and the pace that the creator intended. As mentioned, there are maps that are made to have a 5k speed cap such as surf_me. The 3rd stage and 4th bonus are good examples of this. The 3rd stage was beatable with a 3.5k cap but it was noticeable that you were fairly slow and came up short compared to the other stages, and the 4th bonus could not be beaten without a 5k cap simply due to the velocity needed (It has a 5k cap now).

 

Some maps such as aircontrol, xl_leet_beta, the new summit map, and maybe one or two of the mesa series could work on either 3.5k or 5k velocity because they are very simple and straightforward maps that rely entirely on gaining and maintaining speed; it's not about difficult jumps and skill-based maneuvers.

 

A map such as sluice, stage 8 on classics 2, are examples of maps that have a cap for a reason. At a 5k cap you would not be going at the pace intended for these maps and not only does this lower your time but in some cases (not on these maps specifically, but the bonus on surf_brutalist is a good example) you are going so fast that you would have to deliberately slow yourself down so you can navigate through areas on the map, which is not what you want to be doing when surfing. When maps are play tested there may be a certain velocity that the creator has in mind and the map is made so the player has a smooth flow through the map if they are playing it correctly and a 5k cap could really destroy the flow for many maps.

 

In closing, this is not about trying to keep any of the records I have to myself or not wanting to adjust to change. I'd like to keep the normal max velocity at 3500 because it is the standard speed when it comes to most maps, so players are expecting it, and it keeps the proper competitive flow on the server.

 

If there needs to be discussion about this topic I would gladly discuss it before a change is made to the server because once the cap is raised and new times are set it will be very difficult to revert the changes unless a record of the times set on the new velocity are kept.

[nick]

I have noticed a few things regarding the surf server that I would like to bring attention to.

 

The first is that the new map surf_summit is supposed to have 3 bonuses, but it has none because they do not have any zones.

 

Was trying to do this when I was testing the map, and for the life of me I could not edit the bonus zones to be how I wanted them. They always seemed to be afucked up mess which I'll try to get to soon on the test so it can be carried over to the live.

 

Now to the velocity issue.

 

The second is 5000 max velocity. I do not believe there was a discussion about this or somewhere that I could post my input so this is of course a bit late, however, the server does not appear to have changed to 5000 max velocity despite the change log saying so, but this is a good thing. I think that having the entire server be at 5000 max velocity is not a good decision.

 

The discussion that happened for this change to be rolled out was primarily held in teamspeak talks and discord chats in the Surf channels with Gator and a few others that regular the server. I know Gator would've tried and contacting you but he's been pretty busy and just got his internet back up and running so I assume it crossed his mind. I'll be honest, I haven't seen you on surf since I took up the server and I had no idea you still tried to play on the server so it never crossed my mind to contact you me thinking you just got sick of it or whatever reason you might have.

 

This is not about whether or not we should or shouldn't copy other servers, this is about a certain expectation when it comes to surfing.

 

Believe me, I wouldn't want to copy other servers to the point where it's like I'm copying it to a T. It would give me the idea that we have nothing unique to offer and we'd probably continue to struggle in population. The change for the air accelerate and for max velocity were rolled out with the idea that we're trying to accustom our values to what "Easy Surf" is, and a lot of our players usually complain about the settings we have seeing as they were set to some values that aren't classified as Easy Surf rather Hard.

 

In closing, this is not about trying to keep any of the records I have to myself or not wanting to adjust to change. I'd like to keep the normal max velocity at 3500 because it is the standard speed when it comes to most maps, so players are expecting it, and it keeps the proper competitive flow on the server.

 

Would I be against changing it back to 3500? Of course not. I do understand the competetive nature that Surf has, seeing as I came from Bhop and would probably feel the same way if settings were changed drastically and times could get fucked with. I supported the change to 5000 so we could accomodate for some of the maps that you mentioned. A reasonable fix for this which I think you and I can can both probably agree on, is if you can get me a list of maps that would be fine with sv_maxvelocity 5000 rather than 3500, I can set up map specific configs (they exist somewhere I was looking at them a short while ago and gotta figure out how to set them up) and I can make the standard maxvelocity back to 3500.

 

 

@Poobah

[Poobah]

The change for the air accelerate and for max velocity were rolled out with the idea that we're trying to accustom our values to what "Easy Surf" is, and a lot of our players usually complain about the settings we have seeing as they were set to some values that aren't classified as Easy Surf rather Hard.

 

The air accelerate being at 200 will make it a bit easier for players and it wouldn't really be noticeable, so I don't have any problem with this.

 

In regards to the server being easy surf, I don't believe the max velocity being 5000 would really help or hurt a new player learning to surf since they probably won't be surfing at such speeds in their early phases (what I mean by this is that I don't believe the max velocity would really be a factor in learning surf or even in later stages).

 

The server being 102 tick versus 64 is the main thing that makes it easier since it is easy to gain speed. If you go from a 102 tick server to a 64 tick server you'll feel like the server has some sort of gravity setting changed to make your player heavier because you're coming up short on a jump where on 102 tick you'd have made the jump; it's definitely noticeable, so even if there were 2 servers with identical settings except for tick rate, the 102 tick server would be much easier for any player.

 

As for map specific configs, I will go through and pick out the maps that need or could have 5k velocity and I will be the big happy.

 

Thankies.

[Poobah]

Well before the list starts I'll just say that classics2 is currently on 8000 (eight thousand) max velocity for some reason which makes stage 8, which was previously mentioned, very difficult because you can not turn at a reasonable rate or control yourself at that speed. In order to beat it you must deliberately slow yourself down, which, as mentioned, is bad. I am not sure if the current record takes advantage of the 8k cap but I would imagine so, so I'm not sure if the time(s) would need to be deleted if this were the case or what the proper course of action would be.

 

I've gone through the list of my completed and incomplete maps so that should cover pretty much all current maps on the server, the list also shows maps that are not on the server and there are several duplicates, so if I come across a map that needs or could use a 5k velocity cap I will report back here.

 

The list of maps that need or could use 5k velocity cap are:

- surf_me (required to beat bonus 4)

- surf_fast (not sure if this is on the server currently because I remember that I had told Bread that something was wrong with the map because you couldn't make a jump on stage 2 possibly due a missing boost but you actually just need a 5k cap to beat it, didn't know that at the time, how foolish of me, map should work fine with 5k cap and can be re-added if not already on server)

- surf_aircontrol (not needed but due to map relying purely on speed could be a nice change)

- surf_leet_xl_beta7z (same as above)

- surf_legends (same as above)

 

Upon map change, it appears that, unless surf_spaceship is specified to have a 5k velocity cap (and I don't believe this to be the case), the server has changed to 5k max velocity. pls tell me that this is not the case thanks

 

@nick

[nick]

Well before the list starts I'll just say that classics2 is currently on 8000 (eight thousand) max velocity for some reason which makes stage 8, which was previously mentioned, very difficult because you can not turn at a reasonable rate or control yourself at that speed. In order to beat it you must deliberately slow yourself down, which, as mentioned, is bad. I am not sure if the current record takes advantage of the 8k cap but I would imagine so, so I'm not sure if the time(s) would need to be deleted if this were the case or what the proper course of action would be.

 

I've gone through the list of my completed and incomplete maps so that should cover pretty much all current maps on the server, the list also shows maps that are not on the server and there are several duplicates, so if I come across a map that needs or could use a 5k velocity cap I will report back here.

 

The list of maps that need or could use 5k velocity cap are:

- surf_me (required to beat bonus 4)

- surf_fast (not sure if this is on the server currently because I remember that I had told Bread that something was wrong with the map because you couldn't make a jump on stage 2 possibly due a missing boost but you actually just need a 5k cap to beat it, didn't know that at the time, how foolish of me, map should work fine with 5k cap and can be re-added if not already on server)

- surf_aircontrol (not needed but due to map relying purely on speed could be a nice change)

- surf_leet_xl_beta7z (same as above)

- surf_legends (same as above)

 

Upon map change, it appears that, unless surf_spaceship is specified to have a 5k velocity cap (and I don't believe this to be the case), the server has changed to 5k max velocity. pls tell me that this is not the case thanks

 

@nick

 

For now, I set the sv_airaccelerate back to 3500 so we can start getting stuff back to normal and it should be good on a map change. The list I'll get around to it on the weekend. Thanks for making the list though