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phoenix_

Revamped "Head Guard"

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Before I start this, this is going to essentially just a "2.0" of this suggestion I made back in January.

 

Well, I am back again with another suggestion that I believe may be a way to provide structure and give CTs the ability to control the map regardless of CT skill level. I know before most "warden-like" suggestions have been shot down under the manager's dislike of moving towards a warden system, but we can not keep avoiding the fact that the CT side NEEDS more structure moving forward or the server will continue to devolve and become more and more unplayable. I really think this system gives a chance of providing more balance to the game and allows a more "RP" driven style of play and a push away from the "death-matchy" type of play.

 

So, what would this exactly entail?

 

The 'Head Guard'- This guard would type !headguard or !hg after x amount of population on the server (let's say 30, as a temporary example) would receive 150 health, and a kevlar and helmet. This guard would be responsible for the creation of !tmute(s) and would be allowed to overwrite the orders of his/her fellow CTs. This would allow for a definite answer in times where 5 CTs are talking over each other and would prevent confusion and unnecessary warning shots and kills. Another thing I thought of that would be a good buff for CT/'Head Guard' would be that the head guard would be able to mark a T with !rebeller (by choosing their name from a menu), and it would put a beacon on them for 3 seconds. The Head Guard could use this twice per round, with x amount of time in-between. This would allow CTs to find a hiding rebeller that would otherwise wreck the round. If the original head guard died, one more person would be allowed to use !headguard in the round.

 

Before you all complain like before with "people will abuse the power of overriding orders" and "we can't give regulars power or they will abuse it", stop. Just stop. Literally, every other Jailbreak server entrusts someone to control the entire round via being a solitary Warden and it seems to be going perfectly fine. For the future benefit of the server, the CT side needs more structure to function as a cohesive unit and be able to push forward the "RP" aspect of this game mode. Just like those servers, if someone abuses those powers-- punish them and use them as an example of what not to do. Don't let the fear of what a small minority might do ruin the idea for the general benefit of the server.

 

Normal Guards- Normal guards would still be allowed to give orders as usual, but their orders would be susceptible to being overwritten by the Head Guard. The only exception is that Normal Guards can override a Head Guard's freeday. On top of this, normal guards would have 110 health, but no armor.

 

Firstly, I think the guards should get more health, but no armor since most other Jailbreak servers don't give the CTs armor, and I think that would be a good change especially if there was a head guard with armor. This would put more of a target on the Head Guard's back, and I never really saw the reason of giving the guards armor and buffed HP. Secondly, I don't think the whole overriding orders would cause any confusion, or at least any more than there already is. I think this system would remedy most of the current problems with CTs talking over each other.

 

As always, your feedback and criticisms are appreciated.

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Although I agree on most of your points, I think that taking away all of the CTs' armor and only giving it to the head guard is quite a heavy nerf for an already disadvantaged side. Scouts, commonly found throughout quite a few maps (summerjail, undertale, and the electric razor maps for example) would now instakill to the chest. AKs three shot to the chest instead of four, and the USP essentially doubles in damage (if you're not shooting the leg). I think instead of lowering all CTs' armor, I think a possible change would be to set it to 35 kevlar+armor, enough for a typical AK to kill through (32 armor damage if 4 shots to the chest), but with lower calibre weapons such as pistols, they can break through armor quite easily (45 armor damage for glocks if 3 shots to chest, or 51 armor damage for usps if 3 shots, 34 if 2 shots). Additionally, iirc, lrs set armor to 100 armor+helmet automatically.

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I actually think CTs are fine where they're at right now. CTs can easily mute prisoners if they get too loud, nobody can abuse the head guard shit which I do believe you're right, a lot of other servers to entrust one person to run the server, but then again you need like 12+ hours to be the warden on other servers and that's something we would need to implement. It can also drive the server toward a more DM server because unfortunately people will take the 'head guard' and fully intend to give toxic orders, make every order 1-2 minutes, and just run a death game at 2:30. There could be a lot of good and bad, imo mostly bad, but some good. A custom plugin would also have to be made for this which isn't too much of a problem, but if it doesn't work it's just time wasted. The server right now is in a spot right now where I just find 1-2 people on CT giving orders for the entire time. I think CTs are fine and need zero change.

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I actually think CTs are fine where they're at right now. CTs can easily mute prisoners if they get too loud, nobody can abuse the head guard shit which I do believe you're right, a lot of other servers to entrust one person to run the server, but then again you need like 12+ hours to be the warden on other servers and that's something we would need to implement. It can also drive the server toward a more DM server because unfortunately people will take the 'head guard' and fully intend to give toxic orders, make every order 1-2 minutes, and just run a death game at 2:30. There could be a lot of good and bad, imo mostly bad, but some good. A custom plugin would also have to be made for this which isn't too much of a problem, but if it doesn't work it's just time wasted. The server right now is in a spot right now where I just find 1-2 people on CT giving orders for the entire time. I think CTs are fine and need zero change.

I completely agree with this. Many times when I get on its usually a couple CTs giving orders and a lot of the other CTs trying to enforce them (or camping secrets like little nerds). I really don't see a reason to add a "Head Guard" when you already see "Head Guards" in JB without the plugin. Also, the suggestion about the !rebeller and exposing a t with a beacon is an idea that I do not really think is very good. I don't think it would be a good idea to expose a T with a command in the server. It would make rebelling against a CT team where the guards are giving actual orders very hard in my opinion.

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Posted (edited)
The 'Head Guard'- This guard would type !headguard or !hg after x amount of population on the server (let's say 30, as a temporary example) would receive 150 health, and a kevlar and helmet. This guard would be responsible for the creation of !tmute(s) and would be allowed to overwrite the orders of his/her fellow CTs. This would allow for a definite answer in times where 5 CTs are talking over each other and would prevent confusion and unnecessary warning shots and kill.

 

Instead of just the health buff why not make it have the juggernaut suit on. Would make things a bit easier for players to notice who the "Head Guard" is.

 

I do not think the "Head Guard" should be the sole player allowed to use !tmute at the moment. Since we are not fully diving into a warden system small things like this should be accessible by other players. Following the after "x" amount of players connected for "Head Guard" there should be a voice stamina on Prisoners or a max amount that can talk at once. Would limit down on the micspam without the need of !tmute. There should be necessary measures taken if implemented but that will come if the time passes.

 

Another thing I thought of that would be a good buff for CT/'Head Guard' would be that the head guard would be able to mark a T with !rebeller (by choosing their name from a menu), and it would put a beacon on them for 3 seconds. The Head Guard could use this twice per round, with x amount of time in-between. This would allow CTs to find a hiding rebeller that would otherwise wreck the round. If the original head guard died, one more person would be allowed to use !headguard in the round.

 

I find this to be a little too broken and making it easy for the Guards. I do not believe one person should have the ability to target a player they cannot see. This would highly discourage rebelling and be a disappointing way to die. The "Head Guard" should focus on the orders while the "Normal Guards" enforce the orders.

 

Before you all complain like before with "people will abuse the power of overriding orders" and "we can't give regulars power or they will abuse it", stop. Just stop. Literally, every other Jailbreak server entrusts someone to control the entire round via being a solitary Warden and it seems to be going perfectly fine. For the future benefit of the server, the CT side needs more structure to function as a cohesive unit and be able to push forward the "RP" aspect of this game mode. Just like those servers, if someone abuses those powers-- punish them and use them as an example of what not to do. Don't let the fear of what a small minority might do ruin the idea for the general benefit of the server.

 

 

Normal Guards- Normal guards would still be allowed to give orders as usual, but their orders would be susceptible to being overwritten by the Head Guard. The only exception is that Normal Guards can override a Head Guard's freeday. On top of this, normal guards would have 110 health, but no armor.

 

I like this as it still keeps the unique part of our server being that anyone can give orders with an exception.

 

Firstly, I think the guards should get more health, but no armor since most other Jailbreak servers don't give the CTs armor, and I think that would be a good change especially if there was a head guard with armor. This would put more of a target on the Head Guard's back, and I never really saw the reason of giving the guards armor and buffed HP. Secondly, I don't think the whole overriding orders would cause any confusion, or at least any more than there already is. I think this system would remedy most of the current problems with CTs talking over each other.

 

With how most of our maps contain a pistol secret of some sort removing the armor from "Normal Guards" should not occur yet. They would end up getting 2 tapped by a glock. Later on if our guards become better at maintaining the prisoners then sure but with how things are right now they should keep that extra buff. Since they'll be having armor the hp buff would go away to continue making the "Head Guard" more significant. I do not see a problem with orders being overridden as it helps the Prisoners know who to follow exactly. There should be a rule added or something to prevent any kind of abuse with this if we go with it.

 

Yes.

 

I actually think CTs are fine where they're at right now. CTs can easily mute prisoners if they get too loud, nobody can abuse the head guard shit which I do believe you're right, a lot of other servers to entrust one person to run the server, but then again you need like 12+ hours to be the warden on other servers and that's something we would need to implement. It can also drive the server toward a more DM server because unfortunately people will take the 'head guard' and fully intend to give toxic orders, make every order 1-2 minutes, and just run a death game at 2:30. There could be a lot of good and bad, imo mostly bad, but some good. A custom plugin would also have to be made for this which isn't too much of a problem, but if it doesn't work it's just time wasted. The server right now is in a spot right now where I just find 1-2 people on CT giving orders for the entire time. I think CTs are fine and need zero change.

 

While points given here are fair steps to prevent toxic orders or any abuse would be taken. If properly worded and nothing overlooked all we have to pray for is for our admins to enforce the rule. Currently there is not much for our Guards to give or have the prisoners do and that is limited by our round length, map pool, and a couple rules. I have specific changes in mind to help it not seem that we are all being shuffled around till our ultimate doom of jump rope but rather give more purpose to other orders and activities. Having something like the "Head Guard" would give more clarity to the prisoners on who to follow when orders are given around the same time.

 

I do not believe the current state of our Guards are fine. They are okay but not fine, it could greatly improve. Majority of the problem is the Guards themselves. Players rebel because it is easy, fun (sometimes), and there are no fun orders or really anything out of, "take one step out face the back crouch and freeze", or "go to big cage be on a box freeze on a box" given. By that time too it has already hit 2:30 which brings me to why round times should be increased.

 

==========================

 

I've spent the last week or two trying to be different when it came to CT with some new unique orders or a different route taken. With our limited time of 5 minutes and the first 1-2 minutes being first order and shift walk it is kinda hard to let the prisoners have some fun. Now this does not mean to let them run everywhere as it could be hard at times to keep track of them. Increasing the time limit would allow us to explore the use of minigames that are provided on maps and multiple death games as we can now enforce more than one. Having a "Head Guard" would greatly improve this as the possibility of another talking over you, conflicting, or just getting the order out right before you could simply be overridden.

 

To help more maps with mini games be played there should also be an increase in the map exclusion as mentioned earlier. Razor and Revamp are just way too overplayed and overwhelming for the Guards. A lot of creativity has to come into play if you actually try to make this map fun as a Guard for the prisoners. The exclusion would decrease the amount of times these maps appear since they are both generally double to even triple extended to simply play another version of it. It can have the players explore many more maps in our map pool and take a liking too them by learning the secrets and all the little activities you can do.

 

The rule changes needed will be mentioned in another thread I'll make later this week.

 

I definitely think that this is something needed on our server. When the population gets high chaos emerges. This is not only a problem solver to that but can help attract new players from other servers by giving a sense of familiarity.

Edited by Trazz

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I actually think CTs are fine where they're at right now. CTs can easily mute prisoners if they get too loud, nobody can abuse the head guard shit which I do believe you're right, a lot of other servers to entrust one person to run the server, but then again you need like 12+ hours to be the warden on other servers and that's something we would need to implement. It can also drive the server toward a more DM server because unfortunately people will take the 'head guard' and fully intend to give toxic orders, make every order 1-2 minutes, and just run a death game at 2:30. There could be a lot of good and bad, imo mostly bad, but some good. A custom plugin would also have to be made for this which isn't too much of a problem, but if it doesn't work it's just time wasted. The server right now is in a spot right now where I just find 1-2 people on CT giving orders for the entire time. I think CTs are fine and need zero change.

 

I totally disagree. While the CTs as individual entities are not in a bad place, that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. If there are potential improvements to be made to even better their position when they have consistently been getting fucked, it would be good. I honestly don't know the requirements for warden on other servers since I don't play other JB servers too often, but if we did this Head Guard, it wouldn't need to be as hard of a requirement because they aren't given as much power as a full warden. I really don't think this would push this server more toward DM. It's just not that valid of an argument here because the orders you worry about are already being given in most cases. On a map like razor it is the same five orders every round "One step out, face back, and freeze", "Go to big cage", "Go to Iso", "Go to soccer", "Go to pool". This is a specific example, but it is relevant on most maps because there is the same 5 stale orders on every map. If a CTs who isn't the head guard actually give fresh and engaging orders, it's less of a possibility the Head Guard would want to give the same "lol do something that I can kill you easily for then death game and LR" type thing. I think this Head Guard system would push it away from DM because as mentioned prior, it would make CTs think more about the orders they give if they don't want their orders to get overwritten. On top of this, instead of 2-3 CTs leading the crowd, it would be 1, causing less confusion in the case of the three talking over each other. This suggestion is something much safer than my last suggestion, and I think would definitely be a time investment worth making. CTs do not need zero change. Stagnation leads to other servers getting ahead and our server getting stale. Change will lead to success, especially in the current state of the server.

 

Although I agree on most of your points, I think that taking away all of the CTs' armor and only giving it to the head guard is quite a heavy nerf for an already disadvantaged side. Scouts, commonly found throughout quite a few maps (summerjail, undertale, and the electric razor maps for example) would now instakill to the chest. AKs three shot to the chest instead of four, and the USP essentially doubles in damage (if you're not shooting the leg). I think instead of lowering all CTs' armor, I think a possible change would be to set it to 35 kevlar+armor, enough for a typical AK to kill through (32 armor damage if 4 shots to the chest), but with lower calibre weapons such as pistols, they can break through armor quite easily (45 armor damage for glocks if 3 shots to chest, or 51 armor damage for usps if 3 shots, 34 if 2 shots). Additionally, iirc, lrs set armor to 100 armor+helmet automatically.

 

This is valid. I honestly like the idea of giving partial armor (if that's even possible) better than full armor. I just don't think CTs need full armor because right now CTs can absolutely farm kills because they have that extra bit of protection and are less likely to actually put thought into their actions and just rely on the fact that they take more shots to kill than the Ts who they can mow down ez-pz. @RemixedPixel (and anyone else I suppose) what's your thoughts on just kevlar and no helmet? Half kevlar, no helmet? I think even just removing the helmet would be a good step because it still gives them protection from body shots, but would reward the Ts for getting a skillful (or lucky, I guess) headshot.

 

Instead of just the health buff why not make it have the juggernaut suit on. Would make things a bit easier for players to notice who the "Head Guard" is.

 

I do not think the "Head Guard" should be the sole player allowed to use !tmute at the moment. Since we are not fully diving into a warden system small things like this should be accessible by other players. Following the after "x" amount of players connected for "Head Guard" there should be a voice stamina on Prisoners or a max amount that can talk at once. Would limit down on the micspam without the need of !tmute. There should be necessary measures taken if implemented but that will come if the time passes.

 

What's the functionality of the Juggernaut suit? Does it apply any sort of health buff? The point of giving the Head Guard extra HP is to make them important to protect and gives that guard more of a chance to live since they're leading the round. I do agree with having the suit on to make them stand out would be a good touch though.

 

That's fair. It's a fair statement that the Head Guard wouldn't hold sole jurisdiction over !tmute, and on top of that it may push it too close to a warden. I brought up the idea of some form of "voice stamina" to the managers like a month ago, and we all ended up agreeing by the end of the convo it would be tough to implement because it's not the easiest to determine "how long can someone speak", "what if someone unpresses their mic on accident", etc. If the managers want to comment on that, great. If not, oh well.

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Posted (edited)

What's the functionality of the Juggernaut suit? Does it apply any sort of health buff? The point of giving the Head Guard extra HP is to make them important to protect and gives that guard more of a chance to live since they're leading the round. I do agree with having the suit on to make them stand out would be a good touch though.

 

That's fair. It's a fair statement that the Head Guard wouldn't hold sole jurisdiction over !tmute, and on top of that it may push it too close to a warden. I brought up the idea of some form of "voice stamina" to the managers like a month ago, and we all ended up agreeing by the end of the convo it would be tough to implement because it's not the easiest to determine "how long can someone speak", "what if someone unpresses their mic on accident", etc. If the managers want to comment on that, great. If not, oh well.

 

about the Juggernaut, IF the "Head Guard" should get it, i think that they should get more than 100 armor and more health at the cost of Movement speed, because a basic juggernaut model would have thicc armor right? and making these stat changes would justify the Juggernaut model, imo.

 

and as for the voice stamina thing, can't we do what like ZE has when the voting comes on? like "x" amount of Ts/CTs can talk at a time?

I thought that if JB was facing the voice chat chaos problem, this plugin would have already been implemented, I was thinking of suggesting this a long time ago but i didn't think i needed to, cuz like i said i thought it would have been already implemented.

 

This is valid. I honestly like the idea of giving extra bit of protection and are less likely to actually put thought into their actions and just rely on the fact that they take more shots to kill than the Ts who they can mow g partial armor (if that's even possible) better than full armor. I just don't think CTs need full armor because right now CTs can absolutely farm kills because they have that down ez-pz .@RemixedPixel (and anyone else I suppose) what's your thoughts on just kevlar and no helmet? Half kevlar, no helmet? I think even just removing the helmet would be a good step because it still gives them protection from body shots, but would reward the Ts for getting a skillful (or lucky, I guess) headshot.

 

I agree, but I think they should have 100 kevlar, no helm, solely based on how they can get shot in the chest and heal back up over and over, until they end up with no armor at all, or better give them more than 100 kevlar at acceptable amount ofc.

Edited by Asher

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What's the functionality of the Juggernaut suit? Does it apply any sort of health buff? The point of giving the Head Guard extra HP is to make them important to protect and gives that guard more of a chance to live since they're leading the round. I do agree with having the suit on to make them stand out would be a good touch though.

 

That's fair. It's a fair statement that the Head Guard wouldn't hold sole jurisdiction over !tmute, and on top of that it may push it too close to a warden. I brought up the idea of some form of "voice stamina" to the managers like a month ago, and we all ended up agreeing by the end of the convo it would be tough to implement because it's not the easiest to determine "how long can someone speak", "what if someone unpresses their mic on accident", etc. If the managers want to comment on that, great. If not, oh well.

 

The heavy assault armor gives the player 200 armor instead of 100. Now that doesn’t seem much but it is a better buff than the 150hp. If you look at the statistics of the heavy assault armor you basically have to put half of clip of AK bullets in his head before he dies. This may be a little overpowered thinking about it right now but still would add a more favoring side towards the Guards.

 

I was not thinking of voice stamina in a sense that each player gets "x" amount of time to speak. On another server they have it where only "x" amount of Ts get to talk at a time. Unsure if this is based off of population, ratio, or whatever it may be but for higher population that would work.

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We are not looking into implementing anything related to a Warden at the moment.

 

Thanks for the suggestion though!

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This thread has been unlocked and bumped for more discussion.

 

 

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Just another bump here, we are still looking into bringing this discussion back up. Whether you want this idea implemented or hate it, please leave your feedback below. The way this could work is the warden would have these permissions:

 

  • Automatically take !fo
  • Be able to mute Guards and Prisoners for a short period of time to give orders and clear the comms
  • Allow other Guards to give orders
  • Revoke/Override other Guards' orders if they deem it necessary, however we would prevent and watch for abuse.

From our Jailbreak Community Meeting a week and a half ago, we discussed making Warden toggle-able depending on the number of players online and if any of them met the requirements for the role. For example, you could only take warden if you are a certain CT Rank (For example Lieutenant) and there were more than 30 players online. If no one online or on CT side met those requirements the Warden feature would be disabled and it would be your current Jailbreak with all Guards giving orders.

 

If you'd like to check the warden-related meeting notes click here.

Leave your Jailbreak Event Suggestions here, the Jailbreak/Events Team is excited to see what you guys think up. 

 

 

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I like the idea but do not want Warden to be CT rank locked, atleast with how the current CT rank is. CT ranks are based on the playtime you have on CT, and doesn't really determine that you're a fit CT to lead. I've seen CTs who are LT giving freedays no soccer and just camping soccer, which is basically a warday.

 

  • Be able to mute Guards and Prisoners for a short period of time to give orders and clear the comms
  • Revoke/Override other Guards' orders if they deem it necessary, however we would prevent and watch for abuse.

I like this idea as long as theres a nerf to do this, to prevent CTs from just abusing it on guards or other prisoners, something like a delay of some sort. A suggestion I have would be a warden ban system that admins would have, where we could ban players for a period of time from using warden (this would be for if someone is using warden, for a reason its not intended for).
 

 

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My personal thoughts on this are that we can have a "warden" that is not necessarily what other communities, such as Tango may have, and we can change and adjust that addition (assuming it is added) if necessary, or if we feel as though a part of it is not balanced correctly or just doesn't jive with out server and the way we function.

 

I like the idea of a "Head Guard" more, because you're allowing someone to take control of the CTs (and hopefully a more experienced CT as well) and make sure that the round is running smoothly.

 

I'd like it if other guards were able to give orders, but st any time the Head Guard is able to revoke that order without it being a conflicting order, and other guards are not allowed to revoke the Head Guard's orders. 

 

Obviously there are ways to abuse this, such as taking Head Guard and just giving a freeday, but we have a lot of admins who play regularly and can prevent this sort of thing from happening.

 

Overall I think this concept is interesting, and might be able to spice up the way SG plays Jailbreak as of now.

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To be honest just give The Head guard permission to override other orders and you can’t speak over him.

 

Its been quite annoying lately with the CTs speaking over each other and I feel bad for the Ts because if no admin is on they don’t know what to do cause you can’t hear shit.

 

The idea of the Head Guard/Lead/Warden would be to take charge of everything and give the orders this can be demonstrated by having a command to claim the role in game and having it place next to their name.

 

I would say the Role would give the power to override any order from a CT but if this power is abused by not letting any other CT give orders the person can call an admin it is not my decision to decide the punishment but I would say a CT ban would be fair.

 

Rules: Having The Role would make it so you can override orders as I’ve said but you can’t override a death game from a CT because it wouldn’t be fair and The Role would continue to give orders for the other Ts if any CT speaks over the Role the Head Guy would be able to mute them for 15 seconds. 

 

In general this Role to JB is necessary because with the popularity of SG JB and the new players it would be a good learning curve for all of us to organize things better. Take it as an experiment that can be modified whenever by taking suggestions from the community and if they don’t like it it doesn’t have to stay.

 

 

 

EDIT: This is a suggestion I will clarify anything if you quote me and call me out on something that needs clarification.

Edited by Kit-Kat-Tat

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I've been nagging Chad about not adding warden every since he became SM, but if I'm just the vocal minority, I just want to give some things that I want to add.

 

-Make head guard sergeant+, firstly give the slightest nudge encouraging CTs to play more. Now that we've dropped tpoints, my tpoint requirement suggestion that I made is effectively null. Additionally, because the timer to play CT is still broken, there is basically no requirement for a new player from another server to join CT, take HG, and give incorrect orders. Without admins, you have effectively allowed that player to commit mfk and ban them for 3 days without them really knowing what the problem is. Setting a HG command to Sergeant+ would encourage new players to stay longer, and also turn away players that are trying to troll.

 

-Don't encourage the use of HG. Just like with !fo, some players take !fo only for the sake of getting others to shut up (myself included). Although it would seem beneficial for a reason, bad head guards are essentially bad CTs with even more power. In the same sense that !fo was made for the sake of avoiding CTs speaking over one another, it can easily be exploited for """""toxic""""" players to give """"bad""" orders.

 

-Don't allow mutes from HG. We already have !tmute (that is barely used since we never break 30), so simply lowering the requirement to trigger !tmute to whatever number HG is turned on allows the entire CT side to make that decision. In terms of muting CT side, I don't think that's necessary at all. I'm sure people are already unhappy when one takes !fo, and allowing HG to mute anyone they want, willy-nilly, would seem like a terrible decision. If people continue complaining that "oh i can't hear HG", then maybe explore into a priority speaker plugin. 

 

-Looking back into the thread, I think HG should have the same amount of armor, with a slight CT nerf in general. Taking a look into some basic statistics, for all maps released after !ctbuy came out, the numbers are staggering. About a year ago, the CT side win percentage typically varied between 21% - 30%. Now, 30% is essentially the new norm, with most maps easily exceeding that number. If you want to see numbers, feel free to check my math.

Spoiler

Similar maps [Pre-CTBuy vs. Post-CTBuy] (% change)

- electric_razor_go vs. electric_razor_go_pb [23.43% vs. 31.72%] (+8.29%)

- spy_v_spy_beta7 vs. spy_v_spy_v1-6 [31.80% vs. 38.77%] (+6.27%)

- undertale_v1b vs. undertale_v1e [20.99% vs. 29.64%] (+8.65%)

electric_revamp_f2 vs. electric_revamp_f3 [21.82% vs. 28.59%] (+6.77%)

- moonjail_v1 vs. moonjail_sg_fix_1 [22.68% vs. 30.13%] (+7.45%)

- vipinthemix_hdr_fix vs. vipinthemix_b1 [23.99% vs. 34.43%] (+10.44%)

 

italics indicates that this map had !ctbuy for any amount of time

bold indicates that this map did not have !ctbuy for any amount of time

 

if I'm wrong in any way, lmk ill fix

I'm still a big fan of ctbuy, allowing CTs to play more and less aggressive depending on their teammate's purchases. However, more and more players are binding !ctbuy healthboost and instantly healing back HP, essentially, turning that CT into a 200+ HP player if their reflexes are fast enough. This strategy, if it continues, will drastically hinder rebelling Ts and raise the chances of slow, boring gameplay. If all CT players were nerfed to 100kevlar no helmet/35 kevlar+helmet (you would also need to modify maps that give you armor, like undertale), this would at least make this option less beneficial. In terms of buffing the HG, I don't want to encourage HG any more than what it already gives, so HG should be like normal. 

 

I've never been a fan of warden and any other ways for SG to lose what it has. Our server fills a niche that is the reason why it has this type of community. Communities like Tango have their warden system essentially perfected, and so watching SG try to mimic that not only shows a lack of creativity on behalf of the managers (apologies to Chad and TheZZL in advance), but it shows a distrust in the playerbase to handle things themselves. I'm glad to see that JB is trying to take chances, and make new decisions, but I'm genuinely unsure as if this is the way to go. However, if this is just me, I'll try my best to make sure that JB takes the best step forward.

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40 minutes ago, RemixedPixel said:

Make head guard sergeant+,

How bout officer + so they would have a clear understanding of the rules and how head guard works :hyperthink:

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11 hours ago, RemixedPixel said:

I've been nagging Chad about not adding warden every since he became SM, but if I'm just the vocal minority, I just want to give some things that I want to add.

 

-Make head guard sergeant+, firstly give the slightest nudge encouraging CTs to play more. Now that we've dropped tpoints, my tpoint requirement suggestion that I made is effectively null. Additionally, because the timer to play CT is still broken, there is basically no requirement for a new player from another server to join CT, take HG, and give incorrect orders. Without admins, you have effectively allowed that player to commit mfk and ban them for 3 days without them really knowing what the problem is. Setting a HG command to Sergeant+ would encourage new players to stay longer, and also turn away players that are trying to troll.

Just to state now, this is me talking and giving my opinion. Me and ZLL will discuss this idea this week. (@TheZZL) Anyway, we haven't discussed much about it so I would have to get back to this. If we made it accessible by having a certain CT rank, then most likely it would be Officer+. Sergeant+ is possible if we change the requirements. This would encourage new players to play for awhile and learn everything before having access to this power.

11 hours ago, RemixedPixel said:

-Don't encourage the use of HG. Just like with !fo, some players take !fo only for the sake of getting others to shut up (myself included). Although it would seem beneficial for a reason, bad head guards are essentially bad CTs with even more power. In the same sense that !fo was made for the sake of avoiding CTs speaking over one another, it can easily be exploited for """""toxic""""" players to give """"bad""" orders.

Until we can shift the community and gather players that are here to play and not troll/be toxic, I honestly wouldn't hate it if it was done once in a while. Now, I would plan to add some sort of rule that would combat a problem like this. Admins would just have to enforce it.

11 hours ago, RemixedPixel said:

-Don't allow mutes from HG. We already have !tmute (that is barely used since we never break 30), so simply lowering the requirement to trigger !tmute to whatever number HG is turned on allows the entire CT side to make that decision. In terms of muting CT side, I don't think that's necessary at all. I'm sure people are already unhappy when one takes !fo, and allowing HG to mute anyone they want, willy-nilly, would seem like a terrible decision. If people continue complaining that "oh i can't hear HG", then maybe explore into a priority speaker plugin. 

Why would we not allow mutes? We need the conflicting to stop and allow the order to get out to everyone CLEARLY. It would be pretty silly to mute the CTs and not the Ts. Most of the top JB servers mute both sides as well. Also, they make the Ts wait longer to talk as well. Pick your poison.

11 hours ago, RemixedPixel said:

-Looking back into the thread, I think HG should have the same amount of armor, with a slight CT nerf in general. Taking a look into some basic statistics, for all maps released after !ctbuy came out, the numbers are staggering. About a year ago, the CT side win percentage typically varied between 21% - 30%. Now, 30% is essentially the new norm, with most maps easily exceeding that number. If you want to see numbers, feel free to check my math.

  Reveal hidden contents

Similar maps [Pre-CTBuy vs. Post-CTBuy] (% change)

- electric_razor_go vs. electric_razor_go_pb [23.43% vs. 31.72%] (+8.29%)

- spy_v_spy_beta7 vs. spy_v_spy_v1-6 [31.80% vs. 38.77%] (+6.27%)

- undertale_v1b vs. undertale_v1e [20.99% vs. 29.64%] (+8.65%)

electric_revamp_f2 vs. electric_revamp_f3 [21.82% vs. 28.59%] (+6.77%)

- moonjail_v1 vs. moonjail_sg_fix_1 [22.68% vs. 30.13%] (+7.45%)

- vipinthemix_hdr_fix vs. vipinthemix_b1 [23.99% vs. 34.43%] (+10.44%)

 

italics indicates that this map had !ctbuy for any amount of time

bold indicates that this map did not have !ctbuy for any amount of time

 

if I'm wrong in any way, lmk ill fix

I don't find this a problem. With how our current players play, I'm totally okay with CTs winning 30% of the time, especially with the maps that are most played. You need to give people a reason to play CT. If they aren't winning much, why would new players or players in general join CT if they know they will lose majority of the time? 

11 hours ago, RemixedPixel said:

I'm still a big fan of ctbuy, allowing CTs to play more and less aggressive depending on their teammate's purchases. However, more and more players are binding !ctbuy healthboost and instantly healing back HP, essentially, turning that CT into a 200+ HP player if their reflexes are fast enough. This strategy, if it continues, will drastically hinder rebelling Ts and raise the chances of slow, boring gameplay. If all CT players were nerfed to 100kevlar no helmet/35 kevlar+helmet (you would also need to modify maps that give you armor, like undertale), this would at least make this option less beneficial. In terms of buffing the HG, I don't want to encourage HG any more than what it already gives, so HG should be like normal. 

This would be discussed.

11 hours ago, RemixedPixel said:

I've never been a fan of warden and any other ways for SG to lose what it has. Our server fills a niche that is the reason why it has this type of community. Communities like Tango have their warden system essentially perfected, and so watching SG try to mimic that not only shows a lack of creativity on behalf of the managers (apologies to Chad and TheZZL in advance), but it shows a distrust in the playerbase to handle things themselves. I'm glad to see that JB is trying to take chances, and make new decisions, but I'm genuinely unsure as if this is the way to go. However, if this is just me, I'll try my best to make sure that JB takes the best step forward.

You can call it however you want, but the truth of the matter is that our server rank is dropping like flies. The biggest and most notable difference between our servers and the top servers is Warden. Our little niche hasn't been cutting it for months. Changes have been coming, but a BIG change is practically required. As for the "shows a distrust in the playerbase to handle things themselves," cmon man... seriously? There haven't been much suggestions or discussions happening for months. All I've gotten is complaining for changes or about the state of the server. So yes, the trust to handle this issue themselves isn't high at all. That isn't me or ZZL's fault though. So please don't put a bad taste in our mouths (I know it wasn't on purpose, or atleast I hope lmao). I'm very happy and glad that you are staying and making sure JB takes the best step forward even though you don't agree with this potential change. You are the type of members we need. I'm glad you have a different opinion and are willing to step up and share them. It allows us to shape up the changes better and see what things should/shouldn't be implemented. 

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On 10/18/2020 at 10:39 AM, RemixedPixel said:

-Make head guard sergeant+, firstly give the slightest nudge encouraging CTs to play more. Now that we've dropped tpoints, my tpoint requirement suggestion that I made is effectively null. Additionally, because the timer to play CT is still broken, there is basically no requirement for a new player from another server to join CT, take HG, and give incorrect orders. Without admins, you have effectively allowed that player to commit mfk and ban them for 3 days without them really knowing what the problem is. Setting a HG command to Sergeant+ would encourage new players to stay longer, and also turn away players that are trying to troll.

Making Head Guard a CT-Rank permission is a given, and your T-Point requirement was not going to happen before Head Guard talks because it's unfair to those that may not be skilled or get killed early. The CT Play Timer is not broken, it only activated after a certain # of people are online. 

On 10/18/2020 at 10:39 AM, RemixedPixel said:

Without admins, you have effectively allowed that player to commit mfk and ban them for 3 days without them really knowing what the problem is.

What? That's not how admining or punishments work . We still have our Warn-Ban policy if you haven't forgotten, and our CT Bans plugin that lets the player learn if they're genuinely confused. Regardless of all of that, a first time offender would only get a 1 Day Ban under the new ban system, and their server ban would most likely be after multiple warnings/a CT Ban. 

 

We've been brainstorming lots of ideas over the past couple of months, thinking what we could introduce or incorporate into our version of Jailbreak to make us better and possibly compete with some of the best servers out there like EGO and HGxGFL. The issue is, we can't keep looking at their server since theirs are so much different than ours. Their servers have wardens and focus on eliminating as many Prisoners as possible through games, while our server is focused around rebelling through the use of secrets and how well the Guards can/can't maintain chaos. That's why we play maps like razor/revamp/VIP so frequently because they favor Prisoners and make the Guards' role so much more difficult, that's also why we sometimes have an issue with Guards because there's so much demanded from them in order to have a successful round. So, introducing any type of warden is not something I am in favor of, but okay with experimenting with. 

 

I think our main focus right now should be on how to grow the server and player retention. Something hindering that is how our CTs give orders. Like I encouraged the admins a few days ago, I encourage the players to think about how you want the server to grow and recognize how you give orders effects the mood of the server. Repeatedly giving the same stale "One step out" order makes people get bored while constantly ordering the Prisoners to crouch from X to Y or  "Freeze Crouch knife the ground" genuinely bothers people and makes them not want to play our servers. For those regulars who keep up-to-date with the servers, please try your best to make the game fun for everyone and not so focused around just yourself. Just some food for thought, if the issue continues to persist  @Chad and I will end up having a discussion on it and see how we can manage the situation. 

Edited by TheZZL

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Honestly speaking, I really didn't anticipate myself making another reply to this thread, but here I am. I'm sorry if everything I say isn't really "up-to-date" since I rarely play jailbreak now and many things have changed since my "absence". 

7 hours ago, TheZZL said:

I think our main focus right now should be on how to grow the server and player retention. Something hindering that is how our CTs give orders. Like I encouraged the admins a few days ago, I encourage the players to think about how you want the server to grow and recognize how you give orders effects the mood of the server. Repeatedly giving the same stale "One step out" order makes people get bored while constantly ordering the Prisoners to crouch from X to Y or  "Freeze Crouch knife the ground" genuinely bothers people and makes them not want to play our servers. For those regulars who keep up-to-date with the servers, please try your best to make the game fun for everyone and not so focused around just yourself. Just some food for thought, if the issue continues to persist  @Chad and I will end up having a discussion on it and see how we can manage the situation. 

I do think that encouraging regulars and admins to take their own personal steps to try and make the server more fun and enjoyable is a good step, but won't really achieve much. As bitter as it sounds, there are just too many people who don't actively check the forums or really care to break their habitual playstyle for the betterment of the server. A discussion of how to manage the discussion is inevitable because change needs to happen. Statistically speaking, this server is on the downswing as sad as it is to see. Even though we are during the school year, during the after-school hours in years past there would be a concurrent player count from about 18-32 from about 3PM-8PM EST on school days, and the highest I usually see the server when I'm on CS:GO is in the high teens. 

 

Though the style of the server I knew and loved from when I was young still exists, it's time for a change. As I said in the OP, the CTs NEED more structure. The task at hand is really hard to take care of, and I give you both credit for looking at all the options to look for an answer. Trying to find a balance between CT-structured play and our "trademark" prisoner chaotic play is nearly impossible. I still agree with parts of what I wrote back in May. I think it would be really interesting to still allow the freedom of guards of giving orders but having a big brother there to mark who the bad guys are (if they are KOS, not rebelling), and be the backbone that gives definite orders that in most cases can't be changed. If either of you two ( @TheZZL @Chad ) would like to have a discussion with me about any of this I would be glad to, just pm me on Discord, I'll reply when I am able to.

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