Reworking Recognition Ranks (Hon Gamer - Veteran - LG)

[nesquik]

I personally do not see a reason to deny people that you have trusted in the past that are willing to hop on to have some fun on the servers and help clean out the rule breakers. The previous LG system was a perfect way to honor those who have put possibly hundreds of hours into this community in volunteer work, and allowed those who were recognized to have a bonus perk of having admin allowing them to have little responsibility so they can move on with other personal things, but still have a chance to help out the servers every once in a while. If we didn't trust the person with an admin rank, or they didn't have that much of an impact on the community, we would give them HG which was still a really great way to honor those who have made SG what it is today.

 

What we've done is we've removed recognition from others for legitimately zero reason. I do not see a reason to demote anyone who was previously recognized as a previous valuable asset of the community to regular, and not to HG. We also removed powers from 75% of the previous LGs, and then went all or nothing and gave the rest CA permission, which I don't get either. Most of them are innactive, and a good portion of the current VT are active, removing a good portion of people that are willing to help on the servers for free. The issue now is that a lot of people feel improperly honored, and a good portion of our willing admin force was seemingly demoted for no reason. Even though they've done nothing wrong. Apparently it isn't a demotion, and to the BDs it seems like more of an adjustment to the system that many people obviously don't like.

 

My suggestion is just to compromise with the majority of the community and give VT back their SA powers. Maybe add some sort of requesting system (if needed) where the BDs could individually distribute powers to those who are trusted. People shouldn't have their powers stripped because a group of 10 people maximum felt like the system needed change, where the other part of the community doesn't agree for the most part.

 

Or just go all or nothing and remove all powers from recognition ranks.

[Bread]

Hopefully this will offer a fresh perspective on this - I haven’t been around for quite some time so I’ll try to keep this part as objective as possible.

 

No matter how a recognition rank is designed, there will always be subjectivity involved. LG, HG, Veteran, you name it. RS was an exception to this, but it allowed some people to slip through the cracks who were not deserving of such a rank hence why this system needs subjectivity.

 

The problem I'm gathering that a lot of the public has, is that the line between Legends and Veterans seems to be fairly thin – there are multiple people within both the ranks that could be argued should be in the other, along with a tier that is clearly above the rest, mainly consisting of former POs, VPs, and long-term BDs (not arguing any personnel choices one way or another, just stating that it is a thought that some people have. A distinction similar to this was previously made with the Presidential award). This, in addition to one of the ranks being so far raised above the other (one having both admin and CA privileges, while the other does not have anything additional), is giving some people the sense of unfair treatment, hence it being perceived more as a demotion, despite this not being the intention.

 

For the issue that was mentioned with Veterans no longer having admin power, I do understand how a lot of them feel. For the past probably 8+ years, it’s been pretty much a given that if you put in enough time, work, and represent yourself professionally, you could earn the LG rank, which many people saw as recognition in the form of admin for life. I can’t speak for how it is right now, but back when I was active, we had a number of LGs who frequented the servers, and still contributed on the forums, TS, meeting, etc, and were held in a higher regard than typical SAs.

 

This respect and recognition through the LG rank to long time admins/former staff is one of the many things that I always found made SG unique. All of them earned that rank either through their contributions or long term dedication. I picture that many of the current ATs (given the amount of them who thanked posts in the initial announcement thread) and others who are currently contributing feel the same way, in that earning LG powers and status were one of the many things they would be able to work towards here. Of course, having the combination of Legends, Veteran, and HG ranks today does not change the fact that people earn a certain level of recognition, but that the perception of the system as a whole is changed due to the differences between the ranks.

 

I’m not saying one side is objectively right over the other, but simply that the Board and former LGs who feel strongly about this topic’s perception of the ranks and the changes made are very very different. It’s clear that many of those LGs felt that their spot in the community was a given, not something that would be likely to change after all these years, and having so done to them out of the blue makes them feel hurt. It’s something that was seen as never likely to have been changed – if anything, it would be people within the rank that would be more likely to be moved (whether to a higher level of recognition, as seen in the past with the Presidential award, and now with Legends, or demoted to HG/reg), rather than the rank itself being completely redone.

 

My personal opinions lies with the older school of thought here – I didn’t see a need to change the level of access that LGs had. There was a clear line between LG and HG, even if the LG rank did consist of a pretty mixed group of people, but for the most part, it was fair. I remember a discussion we had a few years back whether to give the entire LG rank CA privileges, under the presumption that they had earned that privilege as people whose voice would be listened to in community decisions. Obviously that suggestion never went through, and I’m sure that the rank today is structured differently than it was all those years back, but I think the idea behind it still stands, shown by the decision for current Legends having access to CA matters. There is merit to the idea of Legends being able to provide input on CA matters (it's basically what @Vick was born for), just how I find there to be merit in letting Veterans participate in admin activities and have that power, whether they actively use it or not.

 

The community could be going in the complete opposite direction than what I laid out in the above paragraph, and that is perfectly fine – neither myself nor many current/former LGs are in a position to make that decision otherwise – but I do think that this general feeling is still shared by quite a lot of people who are still invested in the community one way or another, and is definitely worth having this discussion about.

[WickedZealot]

I have power-read this thread and might not have caught everything said. I don't like the change in demoting the most experienced community members and there is no other way around that. There is also the fact of moving forward that things change and that must be considered and has to happen, so we need to get on with it.

 

The passion and effort of so many posts says many things, everyone is part of this community & one. I see Caution putting alot of heart & effort into this as well with the community.

 

I understand, but I also applied back to Admin to do what I can and does not matter what my position is or anyone else position, it is about the community. I am grateful to serve again, do what I can within the time I can which is different these days than before. From what I can see, this is it but we can discuss it and as mentioned already, nothing stays the same & things will change.

[matt]

Since this thread is almost hitting page 2 i figured id bump this. Any updates would be appreciated.

[Dominic]

The Board is still in talks about potential changes and the system will probably end up being revamped in some way. However, we're swamped with some other projects that we're hoping to close out soon and it's unfortunately taking a bit longer due to 3/5 of the Board members being essential workers.

 

We'll get back to you guys as soon as we can, feel free to continue posting.

[Spiritwind]

Thanks, we appreciate you guys being open to talking about this more. Hopefully we can come up with an idea that equally and fairly acknowledges previous and future veterans while at the same time being beneficial to the community.

[Dominic]

So let's redirect this thread towards the idea that seemed to have a lot of support at the community meeting earlier today.

 

The idea being referenced is dropping everyone down to one rank, as opposed to the previous two or the current three. The name and color is up in the air, as you could really use any of the current three names / colors, however let's stick to the concept itself. It would be a primary rank, not a secondary one. If you ended up wanting to return to admin, you'd apply for it and you would no longer have your recognition rank if you were to get accepted. This would be one of the simplest ways of going about this.

 

We recognize that not everyone was able to attend the meeting, so we encourage everyone to post how they feel about this idea here.

[matt]

Retired Staff rank honestly makes the most sense. If you served on SG Staff such as AO, BD, TA, IA, etc you get the retired staff rank. Nothing else. You are recognized for being a contributor.

 

If thats not cut and dry then I dont know what is. No favoritism.

 

As far as admin abilities go I know that whatever I say wont even matter because I will always want that privilege of having SA powers, knowing that if i ever enter the server I know I will always be recognized being a AO here. Its sad to say that I dont plan to go on SG servers without admin solely because last time I was on TTT and JB it was a disaster.

 

Just give Haggard a founder tag and when Liam Brown decides to step down (if ever) he should hold a rank solely for being Liam.

[Exk]

First post in like a year - wew

 

I kind of read the opinions in this thread, but the following is really just based on my own opinion. I'm not addressing or referring to anybody specifically in this thread - I just wanted to put my two cents in for the hell of it.

 

I'm in favor for that change to streamline the ranks into one "Retired" rank, but I never really thought much about my retirement rank. I stepped down intending to separate from the community. I didn't have the time to be involved anymore, and I didn't think it'd be fair to hold any power in the community if I couldn't dedicate time. The fact that I have a recognition rank itself is nice and it's a neat little reminder that "I did something!!" in the community.

 

In regards to the current structure, despite my previous statement above, I like the "new" division between HG, Veterans, and LG. I find the current recognition ranks a little more distinct. It gives me a general idea of what my contribution meant to the board making the decision. That may or may not be something others like, but I feel like it's a clear statement that I contributed xyz to the community and it was recognized at this level for it. Originally, when I stepped down, I was given HG. I heard about the rank restructuring for "retired" staff, and I came back to find myself at Veterans. Being completely honest, I was happy to see that. I definitely didn't contribute as much as a lot of the old board, and old AOs but I put a lot of effort in establishing a foundation for what I was tasked to do. I thought about SG during my time as AT a lot and tried really hard to improve the QoL for our competitive scene. I see traces of my old template for the current scrim event which is really nice. The fact that I left something behind is something I am proud of, since I really did enjoy and love my time here at SG. Being given the bump from HG to Veterans gave me the feeling that the board saw something similar. I left behind a little more than others.

 

Most of the complaints seem to be from LGs being pushed down to Veterans. At the end of the day, I have no right to really give an opinion on this. I can absolutely see how you would take it as a demotion, since the rank change comes with a clear change in recognition and ultimately powers, but I don't know what it feels like since I did not get affected in the same matter. Nevertheless, I don't see recognition ranks as something that should be considered "promotions/demotions." The restructuring just gave me more of an idea of how the board viewed what I contributed to the community. Whether that's a step forward or back, that is what I view these ranks as.

 

I always viewed those who stepped down as those who just don't have time anymore to contribute. It made no sense to me if you were stepping down to get away, just to return after a short period of time (I know Caution put a public statement about this a long time ago too). There were some legends that still played around the servers a lot and enforced the rules when I first started playing here years ago. They were really cool guys, but I didn't really see why they would stay legends instead of returning to being a SA. They were active and part of the staff even though their rank suggested being "retired." If it was to cherry pick when to enforce the rules, well that doesn't seem to be what it was intended for at all so that doesn't make sense either to me. It was confusing at first because I didn't see their name often around the forums and other parts of the community, but they eventually tagged up suggesting they were admin.

 

On the servers, I could never really tell the difference between a HG and a Reg. This might just be because I didn't really care that much about it. Even legends, I only knew they were legends when they spoke in admin chat or tagged up with an unfamiliar name. Some sort of addition to distinguishing the retired staff on the servers would be nice I suppose. I briefly joined the community meeting yesterday and I think this was talked about but I didn't catch any of it so I'm not sure.

 

Ultimately, whatever decision gets made, I'm fine with it. I like the way it's structured now, but if it makes others happy, I am completely fine with it being one rank as well. I don't log in enough for it to have any impact on me, but I'll always appreciate the fact that I actually have something still in this community that I put so much time into. Honestly, if they decide to take that away from me, that's fine too. I left, but I'll always fondly reminisce about a certain timeline here at SG that I was active in.

[Frostbitten]

Yeah, I was at the meeting yesterday and I agree with the whole "bump all honorary ranks down to just one rank" discussion. As much as I love the cool blue color that HG brings, we could always change the color and add a stylish flair to it. Then, if anyone whines about why they got demoted and gives a valid reason as to why they think they deserve more recognition or genuinely believe they did more for the community, we could always create or give them an award (i.e. Outstanding Member, or we could create an S-G Mapper/Player/General Contributor Award.)

 

 

This is off the top of my head and I'm at work so I'll come back to it if I have anything else to add. Just trying to brainstorm ideas for y'all