Reworking Recognition Ranks (Hon Gamer - Veteran - LG)

[Nick.]

I’m sure it was a tough call, and I think the changes have some merit, but this was dropped on us without any discussion or consultation with the community.

 

On one hand, people who never log on anymore losing admin isn’t the worst thing in the world, and no amount of contribution to the community should necessarily entitle one to “admin for life,” but on the other hand, some of the former Legends are still active, and if I were in their shoes I’d see it as a slap in the face.

 

What I’m curious about is what necessitated these changes. Was there a pattern of admin abuse among Legends that wasn’t present among regular server admins?

 

Regardless, I think it would’ve been wise to include a grandfather clause with the new roles. Let everyone keep their LG status, and apply the new system to people moving forward, keeping the peace. @Caution is this something you’d be open to?

[Dominic]

The previous system was already completely subjective and was sometimes a slap in the face to some people. Some server managers resigned and only got HG when a lot of others got LG. Some people who only made it up to CA got LG based on other factors, while most CAs were given HG. Any system you implement will leave some people hurt by what type of recognition they receive. If you wanted everyone to be happy, you'd just make one rank that all previous staff fall into despite performance, attitude, etc. The amount of ranks you have to recognize someone is totally arbitrary. The previous two might've made sense, the current three might make more. I think it definitely makes it easier to classify people as the gap between certain people in the old LG rank was so large. (ex. a person who created / ran the community vs. a person who did a decent job managing a server for some time) There could still be a gap between certain people in certain ranks, but you'll never get it down entirely. You could make it super specific and implement ten ranks with even more detailed parameters for earning them, or you could make it super simple and do one rank like I mentioned earlier. There's not really a right way to do it.

[Caution]

@Caution is this something you’d be open to?

 

Personally, no. I don't think Grandfather clauses are remotely a good way to go about business, mainly because we'd have a million different ranks with a million different permissions, because every time we do a change, there would be a grandfather clause. At that point, I'd rather just get rid of LG and RS, then give everyone HG (which is what used to happen).

[Phoenix_]

So now that the initial shock value of this change has passed I actually sat here for a little and thought about how things could be adjusted moving forward to make this change more liked and accepted.

 

To provide some background on my thoughts moving forward, I want to state first off that I personally think the only real merit to allowing all or any LG/Vet to have admin powers is that they will be extra people to help administrate the servers when admin count is low or admin activity is low. I think many of the Vets who lost their admin powers were entitled to having admin because they had admin powers for so long without the majority of the community batting an eye. That's just how I see it. I feel like it's at least kind of understandable that they're entitled to wanting admin powers because some of them have had them for YEARS despite minimal activity over that time. But, at the same time, they didn't have to be given powers to begin with, as stated before.

 

Firstly, I think both the LG and Vet ranks should be able to obtain SA/A powers by requesting it. If someone in either of those ranks decides they want to be active for a while and help out in the servers but not make a return to the staff ranks, they could submit an "Admin Powers Request" that if accepted, they would be granted SA/A powers on the servers for three months. The form would include name in-game, the reason for wanting powers, etc. Maybe a better way of doing it would be asking how long they'd be around to grant them those powers for x amount of time and not an arbitrary 3 months, just an idea. I don't remember who it was, but I know pretty recently I talked to an HG who wanted to help admin the servers, so they asked for LG because they knew they wouldn't be able to maintain high activity in the servers for an extended amount of time but they still wanted to help out while they could. I think this would be a good system because it wouldn't require giving everyone in that rank indefinite access to admin powers, but it gives them the ability to obtain the powers they once had.

 

My next suggestion is to remove the LG's access from viewing the CA section. I don't really understand why this decision was made at all if you ask me, but I guess some may be able to provide some sort of guidance? I mean if we're going along the lines of it just being a recognition of what you've done rank and shifting it away from holding power for HG and Vet, I don't really understand why LGs now have more permissions than before. On top of this, not even half of the LGs have been on the forums this calendar year, so I'm sure the majority of them would be out of touch in the sense of this community and may not be able to provide the best advice. I'm not saying they don't have the ability to make good ideas since the majority of those people were once Board members, I just question if the ideas they would provide in the section would be applicable to current happenings here. This one is a more personal one, but I certainly don't trust someone who drunkenly comes into TS every few months to spew shit about the community and try to get leaks from CA+ sections to have current access to this section where many classified discussions happen. Outside of that case, I still don't really see a need for LGs to have access to the CA section, though.

 

To backtrack a little though, I don't know how well my first idea would actually do in execution, but I feel it would be a fair middle ground to satisfy the interest of both parties, that's all.

[Spiritwind]

"Not really a point to argue with you then if you can't see it another way."

 

Is pretty much saying you've made up your mind. Bothering to post in no way shows that you are open to debate, but rather open to defending the decisions that have already been made. You in no way are required to see things my way, but you have been very defensive and given no ground nor acknowledgement towards what I have mentioned. Just to clarify though, my prior mention towards applebees and the marines was not meant to be a bash towards you at all. I respect that you served our country, it was only mentioned in correspondence to show a segregation where there really does not need, nor should there be one.

 

However, I do appreciate that you have taken the time to respond at all, that much is appreciated.

 

@Malibu

In recent history, yeah. But you have no idea what I, or others, have put into this community. You only see what is right in front of you. You do not see the man hours that go into it, the money we ourself contribute without being recognized (@extreme and I put $100s towards darkrp), nor the things we do behind the scenes that someone like you never even knows about. Not only that, I've been around a lot longer than you, and the height of my activity was before you even heard of SG. I'm not saying any of this means I deserved LG in the first place. I myself have said that I didn't. However, I do believe there are multiple people who were demoted from LG to veteran that deserved LG way more than anyone else on that list. There are some in the veterans list that went way beyond anything that anyone, even @Caution, currently contributes to the community. But, being from a time after then, you would not know these people. Many moved on in life, and might only get on the forums once or twice a year. However, these people still deserve more recognition, and I can imagine they will feel a little heartache to see they were moved down from being a legend.

Second, I don't even know who the fuck you are, so how could you claim to know me or what I did? You've never worked as staff, you have no clue what goes into it. I'm not saying I worked my ass off, I slacked off a lot of a TA. I got caught up with a lot of personal things going on in life, and should have given up the position way before I did. Never have I said I deserved LG. I did however wear the tags, that I was told I could wear for life, with pride. So yes, there is some sadness and saltyness with now being told I can't.

 

Yes, some people are more deserving than others, but who is anyone to dictate how much time someone contributed. A lot goes on behind the scenes, that even the BDs aren't aware of. The only time they are is when things get presented in front of the community, or when they flat out get cocky and tell everyone "look what I did".

 

@Dominic

This makes no sense. It was already a slap in the face, so lets separate it more, and make it an even bigger slap in the face to even more people?

 

If we want to talk professionalism, the more simple and more clean it is, the easier it is to manage, and the more professional it appears to the public. This is where SG has kind of had it mixed up, and all these division of ranks and flashy colors, kind of just make us look like confused high school kids that have no clue what we are doing or where we are going. Generally, to appear professional, sleek and simple is the way to go. If you want an example, just type google.com and look at their homepage.

 

As to everything else, I'm sorry I myself, and the others that got demoted, didn't do enough or leave a big enough mark on the community for you guys to feel we still deserved LG. I'm sorry we let you down and I'm sorry I'm upset about such a simple stigma.

[Spiritwind]

So now that the initial shock value of this change has passed I actually sat here for a little and thought about how things could be adjusted moving forward to make this change more liked and accepted.

 

To provide some background on my thoughts moving forward, I want to state first off that I personally think the only real merit to allowing all or any LG/Vet to have admin powers is that they will be extra people to help administrate the servers when admin count is low or admin activity is low. I think many of the Vets who lost their admin powers were entitled to having admin because they had admin powers for so long without the majority of the community batting an eye. That's just how I see it. I feel like it's at least kind of understandable that they're entitled to wanting admin powers because some of them have had them for YEARS despite minimal activity over that time. But, at the same time, they didn't have to be given powers to begin with, as stated before.

 

Firstly, I think both the LG and Vet ranks should be able to obtain SA/A powers by requesting it. If someone in either of those ranks decides they want to be active for a while and help out in the servers but not make a return to the staff ranks, they could submit an "Admin Powers Request" that if accepted, they would be granted SA/A powers on the servers for three months. The form would include name in-game, the reason for wanting powers, etc. Maybe a better way of doing it would be asking how long they'd be around to grant them those powers for x amount of time and not an arbitrary 3 months, just an idea. I don't remember who it was, but I know pretty recently I talked to an HG who wanted to help admin the servers, so they asked for LG because they knew they wouldn't be able to maintain high activity in the servers for an extended amount of time but they still wanted to help out while they could. I think this would be a good system because it wouldn't require giving everyone in that rank indefinite access to admin powers, but it gives them the ability to obtain the powers they once had.

 

My next suggestion is to remove the LG's access from viewing the CA section. I don't really understand why this decision was made at all if you ask me, but I guess some may be able to provide some sort of guidance? I mean if we're going along the lines of it just being a recognition of what you've done rank and shifting it away from holding power for HG and Vet, I don't really understand why LGs now have more permissions than before. On top of this, not even half of the LGs have been on the forums this calendar year, so I'm sure the majority of them would be out of touch in the sense of this community and may not be able to provide the best advice. I'm not saying they don't have the ability to make good ideas since the majority of those people were once Board members, I just question if the ideas they would provide in the section would be applicable to current happenings here. This one is a more personal one, but I certainly don't trust someone who drunkenly comes into TS every few months to spew shit about the community and try to get leaks from CA+ sections to have current access to this section where many classified discussions happen. Outside of that case, I still don't really see a need for LGs to have access to the CA section, though.

 

To backtrack a little though, I don't know how well my first idea would actually do in execution, but I feel it would be a fair middle ground to satisfy the interest of both parties, that's all.

 

I agree, they should be able to apply for admin powers, but I don't think any of the recognition ranks should be given any power at all. If you aren't actively playing the servers, you should not have powers on them if you randomly join. The same goes for having higher up forum access. I think historically it was probably so that those members could still give respected input on higher ranking discussions, but that never really happened. I personally forgot the CA side of the forums was even there, and never really bothered looking at it. I think many of us never even used our powers in the servers, if we got on. I personally never did, I knew I was not familiar enough with the latest ruleset, and would have rather avoided getting in trouble and losing my recognition rank.

 

Honestly, the Legend rank should not exist at all. It should just be a "Retired Staff" rank. That would cut out the separation, there would be no room for a favorites game, there would be no need to give server powers to anyone retired, and everyone, CA+ could get in it, without any discussion being needed. It would be cut and simple, and just a badge you wear on the forums when you visit, and if the server operators want to set up a special skin for it, then perhaps that too.

[Caution]

"Not really a point to argue with you then if you can't see it another way."

 

Is pretty much saying you've made up your mind. Bothering to post in no way shows that you are open to debate, but rather open to defending the decisions that have already been made. You in no way are required to see things my way, but you have been very defensive and given no ground nor acknowledgement towards what I have mentioned.

 

I could turn it around and say the exact same thing about you though lol. To me, it's you saying that you're unable to grasp any other concept beyond it being a slap in the face to you. Several times now I have mentioned my personal opinion on specific matters, but me not caving to the claims of bias and a popularity contests won't be entertained as me not seeing any other possible way lol. At this point, I'm almost entirely for removing LG and Vet alike, leaving nothing but HG.

[SilentGuns]

 

I don't know if it's just me but I can clearly see the difference between the people that got LG and Veteran. Not to be a dick towards you but I would not trade or even compare a single LG with you. Just know the only legacy you left behind is a dead ark server and other failed projects(dark rp, rust). Once again, not to be a dick but some people are just more deserving than others. Personally I believe there are still some veterans deserving LG but hey it is what it is.

 

 

 

 

I also drink Carlsberg.

 

 

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Quite frankly I was just hoping for a more streamlined application process to help transition any willing Veterans to the SA rank or any of the teams. Is any kind of option as such being considered or are we going to have to go full circle?

[Spiritwind]

I could turn it around and say the exact same thing about you though lol. To me, it's you saying that you're unable to grasp any other concept beyond it being a slap in the face to you. Several times now I have mentioned my personal opinion on specific matters, but me not caving to the claims of bias and a popularity contests won't be entertained as me not seeing any other possible way lol. At this point, I'm almost entirely for removing LG and Vet alike, leaving nothing but HG.

 

I would rather it be that then have more separation tbh. I am open to discussion on it, I just haven't heard a reason this has been done that could have easily have been solved by removing LGs server and forum powers rather than dividing it.

 

In other words, why was it determined that some should keep admin and others should not, when the starting argument was that once a upon a time dosent mean they should now. Do you see how I see this as a favorites? That some modern higher ups thought some people didn't deserve it, so they wanted to separate it out. Why would previous people who had LG but never abused it get demoted in the first place? Why not just keep the current LGs who never hurt a thing as LGs? You see what I'm getting at here?

[Bacon]

Lets keep this civil and clean please. This is a discussion for the reworking, a place to put ideas forward, or voice your approval or disapproval of the change in general.

Figured i should repost the "idea" of this thread because it seems like it has strayed a bit from the original post and it is getting personal. This is a suggestion and discussing ways that the rank could be furthered where it is not a slap in the face to people who got veteran and it is not a massive glorification to the LG's. (not saying they don't deserve it) I think that if you were to remove the admin perms from LG it would decrease the amount of hate and distastefulness towards these changes. After all they are recognition ranks not staff ranks. I think if you removed LG's admin perms and it would be more of a balanced system.

 

Edit: While there are some decisions that were made that some of you may not agree with, they were made for a reason.

If you have any issues, please reach out to us so we can reconsider.

It was mentioned that if you have issues about what rank you got or anything else to reach out to the board and not put them in a suggestion thread unless they are to do with furthering the ranks.