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What is your opinion on forced death-games?  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. What is your opinion on forced death-games?

    • I like the proposed rule set and think they should be implemented.
    • I want them implemented but don't fully agree with the proposed rule set. (post below)
    • No forced death-games.

Death-Games Poll

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Hey guys, I'd like to once again bring up forced death-games and see how you guys feel about them being implemented into the server. In my previous thread here I proposed a set of rules that seemed to get pretty positive feedback. I'm going to lay out some options in the poll for you to choose from. I really want to hear any input you guys have whatsoever. I'll show my proposed rule set one more time, this is completely subject to change because there is going to be vigorous discussion between the JB Staff about this if you guys do end up wanting them implemented.

 

Proposed Rule Set V1:

 

  • CTs cannot force a death-game when there are 6 or less Ts alive to prevent every single T from dying to a death-game. CTs must cease the death-game if it gets to this number.
  • CTs cannot force a death-game after the clock hits 2:30 to prevent them taking the entire round.
  • CTs can only force map made death-games to ensure both objectiveness and fairness. The map made death-game must give the Ts a chance to live.
  • CTs can only force one death-game per round.

 

Please vote or post your thoughts.

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I still think we should have the option to play deathgames that are outside of a map's potential. For instance, on maps like the razor clones, you wouldn't be able to do a single deathgame (with the exception of vip) because there are pretty much nothing to do. Besides, games like salty spatoon were the most fun, because it required nothing and we'd usually have good laughs over stupid shit people said. Other than that, the rules seem balanced tbh.

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I could see Death Games making Jailbreak more fun. The only criticism I have with the proposed rules set is the time. I think rather than it being you are not able to force death games after 2:30, I think it should be you can't force death games before 2:30. The reason for this is I see the death games being added not as a way to kill the ts at the beginning of the round but to speed up the rounds. You see this all the time when the cts send the ts to two places and then nothing really happens the whole round. This would be a fun alternative to speed up the round if it is slow. My second reason why it should be you can't force death games before 2:30 is because this would keep the same feel of our jailbreak server where it is kinda of a death match. This would allow the ts to still rebel and have fun rather than being killed near the start of the round because of a death game, but if it reaches 2:30 and they haven't rebelled I think it would be great to allow the cts to go ahead and force a death game.

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Suggestions

 

-CTs should try to not let more than 75 percent of the Ts die in the death game

 

-death games can only be forced using first order

 

-the CT who is giving the order for a forced death game must give a clear and brief summary of how the Death game works

 

-CTs must not try to interfere with the death game

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I think having so the deathgame has to be built within the map would encourage the playerbase to reach outside the normal map rotation. Throughout my time on SG I've seen countless amount of times people complain about the map rotation and how no other maps, besides razor, vip, and lego get played. I think this rule would encourage the players to play more arcade-like maps.

 

The time set can always be tweaked and if we find change might be needed I'm sure we could come up with a solution and throughout testing find the most optimal time for when deathgames can't be forced.

 

 

-CTs must not try to interfere with the death game

+1. If we wan't games to be as fair to the Ts as possible, this should be implemented with the other proposed rules. We should try our best to make the server enjoyable and give the CTs less control over the Ts lives.

 

What I said on the previous post. I still stand by mostly all of this.:

 

I like the proposed ideas. As others have said and what I'm going to expand on, I've noticed that the server basically has a constant cycle of players. New players come, they play for a long while, some continue to play forever... @Military_king, but then others finally get bored of the same bland game play and move onto other servers like TTT or MG. While I don't agree that a death game should be available to play every round, as I believe it should be used to spice up game play once in a while, but I'd love to see it be tested.

 

I think the suggested rule set is a great step in the direction since it would still promote our style of JB to be played. Also, it could help us diversify our map pool more, by mixing the maps that are played. I believe it would essentially push more maps centered around deathgames into the pool while also keeping maps like razor, vip, & lego. I believe a change like this could lead our server into a better a greater future.

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Like what @Manny said, I think that having the cts be allows to force map made deathgames may force a greater impetus to choose a map pool with a larger number of map made deathgames. For example, we have maps like castle, moonjail, and mountaincraft that have a large and diverse variety of deathgames that are rarely ever played or even nominated. Especially for some people who have been playing on the servers for a long amount of time *subtle flex* the maps especially as popular as Razor start to become bland, seeing as there is not that many different orders that you can give on a map like that.

 

The only problem I could see with ruling out ct interaction with the deathgame is in some cases where a map would have a map made simon says or red light green light where it does not actually kill the ts and rely on the cts to kill the ts who have lost. Another problem I could see with this is map made deathgames like roulette where while it is a map made deathgame, its most likely going to be used by the cts to wipe out the t population to 6 people alive if there is surplus by the time 2:30 arrives. If we are going to have ct interaction with deathgames, I think roulette should nto be allowed to be forced unless voluntarily put up by the cts in order to increase the fun that can be derived from force deathgames.

Edited by Military_king
Formatting cuz manny said so
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alrighty, lemme just get serious real quick so i can kinda explain a few things ive seen within jailbreak as a whole gamemode, across platforms.

 

 

 

I'm gonna start of with the obvious "no-shit" statement of the server, as Haxor states appropriately:

 

"... the feel of our jailbreak server where it is kinda of a death match."

 

I'd elaborate that SG has a glorified version of a death-match server, that just changes around some aspects of the teams and I know I've said this before and stated it numerous times, but I do feel it is important to state that with my 5+ years of experience with playing, administrating, etc. on JB servers across CSS, GMOD, CSGO, and TF2

 

Steam Gamer's version of Jailbreak is not Jailbreak in the conventional sense and it is more based off the actual game of the game-mode that is a death-match based source engine game, Jailbreak: Source.

 

The fundamentals of the game are not nearly the same as the custom game-mode that is most commonly associated with the name, Jailbreak, and as a whole is pivotal to creating rules and other structures around the game. I'll get back to why this is important later, I just needed to put this upfront.

 

Going back to the topic of SG, the server has always been a niche market for jailbreak players that I've known of from other communities and I can't argue that "because it's different, that means it bad" because that's obviously false. What I will argue though is that from this version we play, we run into two issues of large importance to running a proper jailbreak sever:

 

- Lack of order and structure from not having one or two predominate players giving orders instead of everyone at anytime (besides first order).

- A lessened of goal for Guards due to only rebelling Prisoner's being able to be killed.

 

I'm going to be blunt, if SG wants to run a modded death-match and call it Jailbreak, so be it, I still play it and I still have my fun on it by running around like a total numb-skull, however, if we're considering to add back in a feature of traditional jailbreak, then you need to add the rest of the package in.

 

The rest of the package being a warden or deputy or rotating warden system in someway... (Something that limits who is giving orders and when).

 

And I know from a technical standpoint, that isn't going to work out from previously talking to Dominic about it, but from a game-play aspect, it simply doesn't work as well as it should either from the standpoint of "who's going to give the death-game" or "when can we" or "when not". Simply put, its a tremendous lot more effort to organize a system to avoid errors and mess ups in something that doesn't have structure to begin with. Rather than just organizing the system to begin with. I know that was confusing, so I'll explain.

 

What we have now is roughly 9 - 12 Guard players a time giving orders at any point (besides first-order) as long as they "do not conflict with the previous order". Sounds alright, but how many times does this work out? How many times have you heard someone give a freeday, the someone revokes it a second later, then someone says "run to so-and-so area and freeze"? And would this work with death-games exactly, one Guard says to play break-floor, but another says it's a free-day, and then another says something else?

 

And, yes I'm aware you can simply add in a rule where "Once a death-game is started, orders may not be given.", but then you get into the issue of someone saying the order as possible to get the death-game going. Then you need a rule to state when it is allowed to give a death-game. From there you get people abusing this, yelling out the order over each other at the time that's available to do so and then no one hears it!

 

This is what I mean about it being more work to organize a system with no structure in it. It's like sorting out blocks of different colors and shapes from different sources all at one time and making a house out of them, maybe a robot or in theory this works, but there needs to be a practical view-point to it all. There needs to be an awareness of what our demographic of players would do and how they might do it and yes, while no matter what rules are made, there will almost always be a loophole, it's not about removing a loophole that wont ago away, its about lessening the hole itself so its less likely to be opened.

 

 

So, what am I trying to say?

 

It's that currently, with how the server is run and the rules we have in place, death-games do not work.

Regardless for how much I personally enjoy death-games being a feature to add in more goal-concentric game-play rather than a death-match, it needs to be understood that at the end of the day, SG Jailbreak is a modded death-match and trying in vain to add ideas from the traditional game-mode is not only more difficult because of that, but with how popular this version is to the current player-base, you just gotta' question if it's even worth it at that point.

 

**Edit: I was looking for this video, it's old, yes, but I still feel it's super relevant because of the similarities between current rules and slightly modded rules we have now. Considering that this is how almost every day in Jailbreak is, adding in something this game changing currently just wouldn't mesh well and would need a ton of extra requirements that are difficult, not impossible, but difficult to add and regulate.

 

Edited by melancholy
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