Russia Invades Ukraine pt 2

[Mad Dogg]

 

Here's a really interesting lecture about Russias strategic culture and how they function. The lecturer has worked most his life in Military intelligence and has pretty much worked with Russians his whole career. It's originally in Finnish, but there are English subtitles available for those interested. 

 

I do agree that to understand the current Russia we need to know it's history. And this lecture offered some really good insight to the whole history of Russia and it's people.

[dolo]

15 hours ago, Yang said:

i still think Russia attacked Ukraine because of the gas pipeline.

Definitely agree with Yang on this one, The Nord Stream 2 is a prime example of this "theory". The Nord Stream 2 was SPECIFICALLY made to avoid going through Ukraine in case something happened... 3 Major pipelines travel through Russia and into Ukraine those three being Northern Lights, Progress, and Soyuz. This means that Ukraine doesn't aquire transit fees from the Nord Stream 2 one of the biggest projects in European history. You could also argue this makes a Ukraine invasion less costly to Russian business (especially Gazprom) and allows gas money from Europe to circulate through the Russian Economy without the worry of Ukraine "intervention."

 

12 hours ago, Phoenix_ said:

has nothing to do with taxes (like you said earlier) since both of these pipelines run through numerous EU countries.

Source: "trust me bro"

Literally doesn't go through any other EU countries other than obviously Russia and Germany. It was planned to run at the bottom of the Baltic Sea and into Berlin.

Sources that disagree with you: 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream&ved=2ahUKEwiLo8rgvar2AhWzDzQIHTGaBXAQFnoECEYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0hIFBDEDhTvH_JzSPFZxWw

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/03/russias-war-in-ukraine-complete-guide-in-maps-video-and-pictures&ved=2ahUKEwig_Jz6var2AhWHGDQIHUu2DrAQFnoECDUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0AamSG1cbrr4HMeK56kOk4

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/1/25/ukraine-russia-what-is-nord-steam-2-and-why-is-it-contentious

Just to name a few.

 

Don't know if anyone has brought this up yet but Crimea and the scrimmage that happened in 2014 also has huge implications towards present day. I personally has been following this war closely and have been talking to IB Teachers and Senior IB Students at my school to try and get new perspectives on this invasion of Ukraine. I saw before (can't remember which post) that someone said that the Russians are embarrassed about the Cold War, and it's important to note all the influence they've lost since then. This invasion and war on Ukraine isn't just because of recent history or Ukraine being interested in joining NATO it really dated back to World War 1 and World War 2.

 

17 hours ago, Gentoo said:

There's about a thousand reasons for Russia to invade Ukraine. To say that it boils down to one or two or even that there's some main reason seems a bit flat

^ 

[Phoenix_]

5 hours ago, dolo said:

Source: "trust me bro"

This is my source: https://www.naturalgasintel.com/nord-stream-2-readies-first-line-for-natural-gas-but-start-up-still-in-the-offing/

 

Goes through both economic and territorial zones of Finland, Denmark, and Germany. 

5 hours ago, dolo said:

someone said that the Russians are embarrassed about the Cold War

Source: "trust me bro"

 

5 hours ago, dolo said:

This invasion and war on Ukraine isn't just because of recent history or Ukraine being interested in joining NATO it really dated back to World War 1 and World War 2.

 

Putin is an imperialist. Ukraine is a sovereign nation with its own culture, history, and desires. 44 million people shouldn't be subject to the aggression of a man with his pockets as his only interest. He does not care about the lives of Russians or Ukranians.

[dolo]

14 hours ago, Phoenix_ said:

Goes through both economic and territorial zones of Finland, Denmark, and Germany. 

Does not say anywhere in the source(other than the image) or anywhere on the internet for that matter that Russia would have to pay transit fees to Finland, Denmark, and Germany. It's also very obvious where the stream leads out that it will bypass all transit fees (and Poland, Ukraine). 

 

On 3/2/2022 at 11:30 PM, Phoenix_ said:

nothing to do with taxes (like you said earlier)

If they didn't care about transit fees or taxes why wouldn't they go through Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania or Poland for that matter. They don't have to make it harder and go under the sea.

 

As well as this source disagrees: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream

and this one:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60131520

 

14 hours ago, Phoenix_ said:

Source: "trust me bro"

was quoting someone from this thread (the quote below)

On 3/1/2022 at 3:33 PM, delirium said:

it looks like Russia is wanting to renegotiate its place in the pecking order as it feels embarrassed by its own perception following the end of the Cold War.

 

Don't understand how you Phoenix, can have blind followers that like whatever he says be as retarded as you.

[delirium]

Care to elaborate @dolo? I’m not sure what your getting at regarding the portion you quoted from my post.

[dolo]

38 minutes ago, delirium said:

Care to elaborate @dolo? I’m not sure what your getting at regarding the portion you quoted from my post.

Said before:

21 hours ago, dolo said:

I saw before (can't remember which post) that someone said that the Russians are embarrassed about the Cold War,

and phoenix responded with "Source: trust me bro." The only reason I quoted your post was to point out where I got the "source"/ information from, which was you. (I said in the same post that I agreed with that statement as well.)

[Phoenix_]

4 hours ago, dolo said:

Does not say anywhere in the source(other than the image) or anywhere on the internet for that matter that Russia would have to pay transit fees to Finland, Denmark, and Germany. It's also very obvious where the stream leads out that it will bypass all transit fees (and Poland, Ukraine).

I made an assumption, that could be wrong. Just figured if you're transporting a good through someone's economic zone, you need to give some sort of compensation. Finance and Policy are not things I study, so

 

4 hours ago, dolo said:

If they didn't care about transit fees or taxes why wouldn't they go through Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania or Poland for that matter. They don't have to make it harder and go under the sea.

 

As well as this source disagrees: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream

and this one:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60131520

Yeah uh just putting two random links with a bunch of information doesn't really help... mind pulling some excerpts that back your point? I ain't reading through all that just to prove myself wrong.

 

4 hours ago, dolo said:

was quoting someone from this thread (the quote below)

Oh I know, I just wanted to make fun of you.

 

[Noxstar]

On 3/2/2022 at 5:34 PM, Yang said:

I think Russia started the war simply because their gas runs through Ukraine. They also have to pay taxes so to not pay them Russia trying to get them to be a part of Russia. Also you see videos of Russia invasion and Ukraine civilian's casualty.

here's an article about russia gas pipeline going through Ukraine below

Ukraine’s Pipeline Operator Says Gas Continues to Flow After Explosion - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

skull_emoji.

 

Russia started war because Putin wants Russia to be put on the world stage again after the Cold War (I think delirium said it in one of his posts idk I didn't read this whole thread). On top of that, NATO has been creeping up from the west for a while now and Infinityward also said something about Ukraine wanting to join NATO and Russia cryin about it so Putin locked Ukraine from being able to join NATO by destabilizing some parts of Ukraine.

 

Don't think there is really much more than that, if it was just gas running through Ukraine then they would talk about it, not start a war with threat of nuclear bombs if they were interfered with.

[fozilla mirefox]

On 2/28/2022 at 8:07 PM, Gentoo said:

A few questions:

 

Why does everyone seem to point to Putin/Russia as the 'bad guy's here? Is it Cold War/Modern Media stigma? Because they're the aggressor? The tactics being used?

 

What are you guys using as your sources for what you believe about what's going on?

 

Why do you think whatever source you use can or should be counted as reputable? (Keep in mind that your country, whichever that is, has previously participated in disinformation campaigns, and whatever outlet you're following has been known to be biased and fabricate stories.)

Another victim of the Steam-Gamers.net Alt-Right Pipeline...

[sWz]

On 2/28/2022 at 8:07 PM, Gentoo said:

Why does everyone seem to point to Putin/Russia as the 'bad guy's here? 

 

On 3/2/2022 at 8:29 PM, Yang said:

Ukraine joined NATO back in 1992 and then backed out soon after.

 

On 3/4/2022 at 9:09 AM, dolo said:

Don't understand how you Phoenix, can have blind followers that like whatever he says be as retarded as you.

 

On 3/1/2022 at 6:05 PM, Gentoo said:

Conscripting 19 year olds? I don't see the problem. Threatening to shoot deserters? I think that's been standard fare for war since forever but I can understand how people don't agree. Arresting protestors? I don't agree but I can understand why it's reasonable.

 

 

Also shit like this was bound to happen the next time we were gonna have a major military conflict in the age of social media: