Russia Invades Ukraine pt 2

[kabLe]

41 minutes ago, Gentoo said:

That's sort of the point when you want to know what people think isn't it? I've been curious about this conflict but it's very difficult to find people that don't spazz the fuck out any time you ask them why they believe what they do or think that it's not exactly self evident. I apologize if I find it ironic to see Americans complaining about invading foreign countries, bombing civs, politicians lying on TV, and calling political opponents Nazis.

 

Conscripting 19 year olds? I don't see the problem. Threatening to shoot deserters? I think that's been standard fare for war since forever but I can understand how people don't agree. Arresting protestors? I don't agree but I can understand why it's reasonable.

 

I've tried to watch some of the news when I get the chance but it all seems watered down compared to what is actually going on. Social media can be useful, with people providing pictures and videos of the conflict to show what's actually going on, but you quite often see conflicting reports and also have retards who cheer and clap for things like UN delegates walking out. Seriously? How would it feel to be a Ukrainian getting blown the fuck out and seeing that the goddamned UN refuses to even acknowledge your aggressors or attempt diplomacy.

 

I've been spending every day with my Ukrainian manager trying to pick his brain as he has family and friends in Ukraine, has been following their politics for the last 10 years, and has been listening to a Ukrainian independent journalists stream for the last week straight.

 

Some things I can't seem to shake is seeing Ukrainian civies and cons armed to the teeth commanding other civies around and shooting men women and children. Ukrainians putting equipment, troops, equipment, tanks in civilian zones then getting outraged when these places get shot up/bombed. The idea that Zelensky would poke the bear for so long and not forsee this happening, knowing full well he doesn't have manpower, resources, allies to handle it. Not something you're going to see plastered on national television and not something I'm dumb enough to post here but there is videos, pictures, reports out the ass if you go looking. Maybe this is the Russia disinformation campaign we've been warned about, but damn if it's not convincing.

 

All I'm suggesting is that it's not immediately clear to me what's going on and who's in the right here, if anyone. It's very fucking difficult to get a clear picture of what's going on, taking in the whole scope and timespan of this conflict. The fact that everyone seems to have a rock solid idea of what's what and loses their fucking mind if you ask a few questions is mind boggling to me. The fact that you asked for an article and not a history lesson on who's the good guy really paints how far your brain has rotted from bite size media consumption.

Part of being an adult is not needing 4 people to call you a retard before you actually explain your side. You know like a discussion.
 

I respect your position since it shows critical thinking and not wanting to immediately label something. It could come out that Zelensky is just a puppet and there’s rampant abuse going on that none of us are aware of. However, with the information currently displayed it seems Russia is the clear aggressor and “bad guy” in the grand scope. Nobody on this forum knows what’s happening behind the scenes in Ukraine that escalated things to this point.

 

Next time, try making your last post the first one and people will most likely be more willing to engage in discussion. If you don’t think your first post is worded poorly and gives off the impression that you don’t think Putin is the bad guy your fucking retarded.

[delirium]

15 minutes ago, kabLe said:

Part of being an adult is not needing 4 people to call you a retard before you actually explain your side. You know like a discussion.
 

I respect your position since it shows critical thinking and not wanting to immediately label something. It could come out that Zelensky is just a puppet and there’s rampant abuse going on that none of us are aware of. However, with the information currently displayed it seems Russia is the clear aggressor and “bad guy” in the grand scope. Nobody on this forum knows what’s happening behind the scenes in Ukraine that escalated things to this point.

 

Next time, try making your last post the first one and people will most likely be more willing to engage in discussion. If you don’t think your first post is worded poorly and gives off the impression that you don’t think Putin is the bad guy your fucking retarded.

Maybe I’m retarded too but I didn’t read his first post as pro-either side. If anything it read like he wanted people to think critically about the situation and their opinions on it. 
 

I know typically I’m jumping all over posts like this but I think the reaction in this thread was unwarranted. It’s not like our own government hasn’t lied to us to manufacture support for wars since that’s how America makes money.

[kabLe]

6 minutes ago, delirium said:

Maybe I’m retarded too but I didn’t read his first post as pro-either side. If anything it read like he wanted people to think critically about the situation and their opinions on it. 
 

I know typically I’m jumping all over posts like this but I think the reaction in this thread was unwarranted. It’s not like our own government hasn’t lied to us to manufacture support for wars since that’s how America makes money.

Dunno didn’t read any of them

[Gentoo]

18 minutes ago, kabLe said:

Part of being an adult is not needing 4 people to call you a retard before you actually explain your side. You know like a discussion.
 

I respect your position since it shows critical thinking and not wanting to immediately label something. It could come out that Zelensky is just a puppet and there’s rampant abuse going on that none of us are aware of. However, with the information currently displayed it seems Russia is the clear aggressor and “bad guy” in the grand scope. Nobody on this forum knows what’s happening behind the scenes in Ukraine that escalated things to this point.

 

Next time, try making your last post the first one and people will most likely be more willing to engage in discussion. If you don’t think your first post is worded poorly and gives off the impression that you don’t think Putin is the bad guy your fucking retarded.

Sorry, as you can see from my post I don't have some grand conclusion or point to make, mostly came here to gather info. Unfortunately most people seem to be under the impression that Putin is some B-Movie villain that just wants to see as many innocent people slaughtered as possible for no reason at all and can't grasp what it might be like to be in his position. Just wanted to see if anyone had anything insightful to say or any critical thought to substantiate what they believed. Didn't really think I was suggesting anything too controversial but I can understand how some people might see it as a little antagonistic. 

 

Anyways, I work a lot so sometimes I struggle to find time a motivation to respond to threads. When something that is at most, a antagonistically worded set of questions is met with a threat of ban, I have to debate if I'm better off trolling or not replying at all.

[Yang]

On 2/28/2022 at 8:07 PM, Gentoo said:

A few questions:

 

Why does everyone seem to point to Putin/Russia as the 'bad guy's here? Is it Cold War/Modern Media stigma? Because they're the aggressor? The tactics being used?

 

What are you guys using as your sources for what you believe about what's going on?

 

Why do you think whatever source you use can or should be counted as reputable? (Keep in mind that your country, whichever that is, has previously participated in disinformation campaigns, and whatever outlet you're following has been known to be biased and fabricate stories.)

I think Russia started the war simply because their gas runs through Ukraine. They also have to pay taxes so to not pay them Russia trying to get them to be a part of Russia. Also you see videos of Russia invasion and Ukraine civilian's casualty.

here's an article about russia gas pipeline going through Ukraine below

Ukraine’s Pipeline Operator Says Gas Continues to Flow After Explosion - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

[Infinityward]

9 minutes ago, Yang said:

I think Russia started the war simply because their gas runs through Ukraine. They also have to pay taxes so to not pay them Russia trying to get them to be a part of Russia. Also you see videos of Russia invasion and Ukraine civilian's casualty.

here's an article about russia gas pipeline going through Ukraine below

Ukraine’s Pipeline Operator Says Gas Continues to Flow After Explosion - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

 

No lol

 

 

Obviously I'm no expert on Eastern European history but it seems Ukraine's desire to join NATO was one of the reasons Russia decided to invade. Greggy also mentioned that it may because of the shared culture and history that Ukraine and Russia both have and Putin's desire to reform the Russian Empire and further his own interests. 

[Gentoo]

2 hours ago, Infinityward said:

 

No lol

 

 

Obviously I'm no expert on Eastern European history but it seems Ukraine's desire to join NATO was one of the reasons Russia decided to invade. Greggy also mentioned that it may because of the shared culture and history that Ukraine and Russia both have and Putin's desire to reform the Russian Empire and further his own interests. 

There's about a thousand reasons for Russia to invade Ukraine. To say that it boils down to one or two or even that there's some main reason seems a bit flat. I am curios about the straw that broke the camel's back though. Might have just been a matter of waiting for conditions to be just right.

[Yang]

2 hours ago, Infinityward said:

 

No lol

 

 

Obviously I'm no expert on Eastern European history but it seems Ukraine's desire to join NATO was one of the reasons Russia decided to invade. Greggy also mentioned that it may because of the shared culture and history that Ukraine and Russia both have and Putin's desire to reform the Russian Empire and further his own interests. 

Ukraine joined NATO back in 1992 and then backed out soon after. Not sure if they actually got back in but i still think Russia attacked Ukraine because of the gas pipeline.

Just a theory. 

[Greggy G]

39 minutes ago, Yang said:

Ukraine joined NATO back in 1992 and then backed out soon after. Not sure if they actually got back in but i still think Russia attacked Ukraine because of the gas pipeline.

Just a theory. 

 

Ukraine never joined NATO, they only developed relations with each other which isnt the same thing.

 

 

Google is a really helpful tool. You should try it out.

[Phoenix_]

2 hours ago, Yang said:

Ukraine joined NATO back in 1992 and then backed out soon after. Not sure if they actually got back in but i still think Russia attacked Ukraine because of the gas pipeline.

Just a theory. 

Well, I don't believe your theory is right. The Nord 2 pipeline was (before Germany shut it down bc Ukranian invasion) being built to service Europe and ween off of the pipeline going through Ukraine. It has nothing to do with taxes (like you said earlier) since both of these pipelines run through numerous EU countries. I think Putin is just an aggressor who wants to revive the USSR to compensate for a stagnating economy and population growth. You could make a loose argument for the two regions invaded years ago since both those regions technically have majority ethnic Russians, but I don't feel like war is justifiable in 99% of cases. 

 

This attack is just downright aggression to obtain more land, wealth, and workers. Russia deserves better than Putin, or any of his oligarch friends.